[FFmpeg-cvslog] random thoughts about refactoring

[Jai Menon]

On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 10:45:16PM +0100, Diego Biurrun wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 10:23:34PM +0100, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> > On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 02:48:00PM -0500, compn wrote:
> > > 
> > > i'll paste some relevent irc chat:
> > 
> > thank you!
> > while not as usefull as i thought, it is usefull.
> > 
> > some comments below
> > 
> > > [17:49] <DonDiego> Dark_Shikari: we have no students who reach the patch review phase, so this is not a problem
> > 
> > ehm? there are plenty who did reach patch review, theres even a patch laying
> > around that i should review. You make it look quite a bit worse than it is
> 
> SoC is not going too well and what's worse, it's not improving year over
> year..
> 
> > > [17:51] <Dark_Shikari> For example, if you were writing an h264 decoder, you would have to write a header + bitstream parser
> > > [17:51] <Dark_Shikari> that printed dct coefficients for cavlc streams
> > > [17:51] <DonDiego> yes, i notice that many people from there apply and i suspect that money could be a motivation, there's $4500 to earn, i can live off that kind of money for 1/2 year in germany..
> > > [17:51] <Dark_Shikari> that kind of thing is _useful for your actual project_
> > > [17:51] <kierank> the x264 qualifications are meatier than ffmpeg ones
> > > [17:51] <DonDiego> mru: jai has just taken money and done nothing in return :-/
> > > [17:52] <Dark_Shikari> 2) You must be on IRC often, and get to know the community
> > > [17:52] <Dark_Shikari> you must be involved
> > > [17:52] <Dark_Shikari> you must respond to pings
> > > [17:52] <Dark_Shikari> If I ping you and say "there's a bug in your code here", you should be able to respond
> > > [17:52] <Dark_Shikari> obviously, I can't control timezones/sleep schedules/etc
> > > [17:52] <mru> DonDiego: jai has done stuff though
> > > [17:52] <Dark_Shikari> but in general, you shouold be available.
> > > [17:52] <kierank> 22:42] <@Dark_Shikari> you must respond to pings --> like janihan ;)
> > > [17:52] <Dark_Shikari> lol
> > > [17:52] <DonDiego> mru: that was last year, this year it was money for nothing..
> > > [17:53] * mru takes the chicks for free...
> > 
> > > [17:53] <Dark_Shikari> I don't think the x264 requirements are harder than ffmpeg
> > > [17:53] <Dark_Shikari> the ffmpeg qual tasks are really hard
> > > [17:53] <Dark_Shikari> and don't even relate to the main project often
> > > [17:53] <Dark_Shikari> I think the main thing is that we create a community and force people to be involved
> > > [17:53] <Dark_Shikari> and if they can't stay online and involved, they don't get in
> > > [17:53] <mru> that's how communities work
> > > [17:53] <mru> _saying_ you're in doesn't make it so
> > > [17:54] <Dark_Shikari> yup
> > > [17:54] <Dark_Shikari> having a qual task that leads into the main project is the best idea of mine IMO
> > > [17:54] <Dark_Shikari> it gives people a feeling that they're actually part done with the project
> > > [17:54] <Dark_Shikari> before SOC even starts
> > > [17:54] <Dark_Shikari> and people are less likely to quit in the middle
> > > [17:55] <Dark_Shikari> as opposed to simply bullshitting and quitting after getting nothing done
> > > [17:55] <DonDiego> we need to work on our soc, it's in a sad state and not improving
> > 
> > > [17:55] <DonDiego> also, our tasks are *much* too hard
> > > [17:55] <Dark_Shikari> well, here's my advice for improving ffmpeg SOC
> > 
> > > [17:55] <DonDiego> basically the only student that ever finished a decoder is kostya
> > 
> > complete nonsense
> 
> Absolutely not.  There is only one non-Kostya-implemented decoder that
> made it into FFmpeg start to finish during SoC: MPEG-4 ALS.
> 
> Our SoC tasks are too hard, it's a fact.
> 
> > > [17:56] <Dark_Shikari> DylanZA was one of our successes last year
> > > [17:56] <Dark_Shikari> he picked x264 over ffmpeg
> > > [17:56] <DonDiego> hmm
> > > [17:57] <DonDiego> qual tasks were started after the first year
> > > [17:57] <DylanZA> most reasonable students will pick a couple of projects anyway
> > > [17:57] <DonDiego> to weed out incompetent students
> > > [17:57] <Dark_Shikari> DonDiego: IMO there are two requirements
> > > [17:57] <Dark_Shikari> 1) competent/self-motivated
> > > [17:57] <Dark_Shikari> 2) involved
> > > [17:57] <DylanZA> but if one is too difficult then they choose another. but the poor students might just stick to one project and try their luck
> > > [17:57] <Dark_Shikari> unless you have both, you will have a failure
> > > [17:58] <DylanZA> Dark_Shikari: yuo also need luck
> > 
> > > [17:58] <Dark_Shikari> this is why I'm biased against indian/chinese students, they do not tend to be very involved
> > 
> > if iam not mistaken our mxf muxer was written by a chinese student together
> > with his mentor baptiste
> 
> Kartikey Mahendra Bhatt and Xiaohui Sun were complete failures, then
> there's a bunch of incompetent ones that failed during qualification.

I strongly disagree with calling anyone attempting a qualification task as
incompetent.
> 
> > also jai is indian if iam not mistaken and he wrote the alac stuff
> > jai failed on jpeg2k but kamil who i think was from poland failed on that
> > before.
> 
> Jai worked well one year and milked SoC for the money the next year..

*sigh*
I'm sorry you feel this way, really. But I'm not going to add
anything. Because I tend to apply certain variants of Godwin's law
when doing anything related to opensource, and If someone is already
biased against "indian/chinese" students, there is nothing I can say
that will make you see differently.

-- 
Jai Menon