[FFmpeg-devel-irc] IRC log for 2010-08-27

[irc at mansr.com]

[00:31:40] <jonwil> Someone has figured out the EALayer3 MPEG audio-derived codec. Is there somewhere usefull that I could put some links/docs/etc in case someone wants to support this codec in FFMPEG?
[00:31:49] <jonwil> Also, the code was released under this license
[00:31:51] <jonwil> http://pastebin.com/Dr5BTizw
[00:31:57] <jonwil> Is that license compatible with FFMPEG license?
[00:34:03] <Dark_Shikari> that's BSD, so yes
[00:35:13] <Yuvi> jonwil: http://wiki.multimedia.cx/
[00:35:41] <jonwil> so if I put the relavent info on that wiki, the people who need to see it will see it?
[00:36:02] <Yuvi> and a mail to ffmpeg-devel I guess
[00:36:57] <jonwil> ok, thanks
[00:40:29] <jonwil> on the wiki, should I list this under "audio codecs" or "game formats" (given that its used in games)
[00:42:05] <Yuvi> game formats is for the plethora of old codecs only ever used for games
[00:42:31] <Yuvi> so audio codecs probably
[00:45:59] <Compn> jonwil : yes, the wiki is the best place, you probably will have to email mike at multimedia.cx to get an account
[00:46:08] <jonwil> I already have an account
[00:46:13] <Compn> oh ok :D
[00:46:51] <jonwil> Just trying to figure out where all the info should go, given the existence of http://wiki.multimedia.cx/index.php?title=EA_Command_And_Conquer_3_Audio_Codec and its relevance to EALayer3
[00:47:05] <jonwil> I think http://wiki.multimedia.cx/index.php?title=EA_Command_And_Conquer_3_Audio_Codec should describe the "container" format
[00:47:16] <jonwil> a new page titled EALayer3, the codec
[00:47:24] <mru> "audio codec" doesn't sound like a container to me
[00:48:02] <jonwil> well the text on that page describes the header and some bits about the ADPCM variant
[00:48:24] <jonwil> I think we need 3 pages then, one for the container-ish format, one for the MP3 variant and one for the ADPCM variant
[00:49:11] <jonwil> I think one called EA_SAGE_Audio_Files for the container makes sense (SAGE is the name of the game engine)
[00:51:52] <jonwil> also, where can I upload some more samples of this format?
[00:52:12] <jonwil> as in how do I upload to the samples archive?
[01:03:31] <Compn> jonwil : ftp://upload.mplayerhq.hu/MPlayer/incoming
[01:28:43] <jonwil> ok, uploading samples to the samples archive now
[01:38:05] <jonwil> uploaded
[01:38:20] <jonwil> does anyone have access to move the files to the right place?
[01:38:43] <jonwil> the "right place" being http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/game-formats/cc3-audio/
[01:56:36] <saintdev> ...and short blocks are (mostly) working
[01:56:38] <saintdev> \o/
[01:58:24] <peloverde> nice
[01:58:37] <jonwil> short blocks for what?
[01:58:42] <Dark_Shikari> legos
[01:59:39] <saintdev> jonwil: ff-aac with lame-psymodel
[01:59:53] <jonwil> ok, nice
[02:00:02] <jonwil> this is an AAC encoder I take it?
[02:01:08] <saintdev> the ffmpeg aac encoder
[02:02:05] <jonwil> ok
[02:02:36] <saintdev> although legos would be more fun :/
[02:02:43] <jonwil> :)
[02:09:57] <saintdev> now to get rid of this 2 block delay on return from short
[02:35:27] <peloverde> go for it
[02:36:50] <saintdev> peloverde: it zeroes all thresholds for two blocks after a short sequence
[02:38:05] <saintdev> i suspect it's because lame has a 1 block delay even for analysis
[02:38:24] <saintdev> just didn't feel like looking into it, until I had both working :)
[02:39:49] <peloverde> well I'm glad someone is working on it
[03:01:07] <peloverde> Does anyone have the link to the article where the on2 ceo said that the company was unable to attract and retain talent
[03:02:42] <Dark_Shikari> well that's obvious
[03:02:44] <Dark_Shikari> just try using their software
[03:03:19] <peloverde> well I'm arguing with people on reddit
[03:03:23] <Yuvi> http://on2.com/docs/on2-google-merger-faq.pdf
[03:03:35] <Yuvi> near the bottom of page 4
[03:03:50] <Yuvi> I guess there was something before that too
[03:04:34] <peloverde> Also I stumbled into an article about real using vp4
[03:04:42] <peloverde> I know vp4 has kind of been a mystery
[03:04:58] <astrange> i got someone on reddit trying to argue with me that you can restore overwritten files from an hd if you try really hard
[03:06:01] <peloverde> On reddit I said Divx 4/5/6 was 14496-2 and got modded down
[03:06:18] <astrange> er, trying to argue me by telling me that...
[03:07:49] <Dark_Shikari> arguing on reddit is retarded...
[03:16:29] <peloverde> I don't have an FFmpeg related project at the moment so trolling on the internet is my only refuge
[03:17:15] <peloverde> http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/d5o4a/mpeg_la_will_not_charge_royalties_for_internet/c0xt77d
[03:21:42] <Dark_Shikari> work on aac
[03:22:37] <saintdev> what he said ^
[03:27:13] <peloverde> LTP, Error Resilience, and DR(adio)M aren't particularly interesting
[03:28:26] <saintdev> >encoder
[03:39:06] <peloverde> I could take another stab at that but my previous attempts weren't very successful and I've been interviewing with a semicondictor company that would probably want me to stop working on FFmpeg
[03:39:59] <saintdev> o.O
[03:43:07] <peloverde> It would at least get me out of the rust belt to California
[03:43:17] <saintdev> rust belt?
[03:44:03] <peloverde> Western NY, Western PA, Ohio, Indiana, Michigan
[03:44:15] <Dark_Shikari> there's nobody who wants a good aac encoder?
[03:45:11] <saintdev> they probably just license nero
[03:45:37] <peloverde> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust_Belt The area used to have a lot of heavy manufacturing and steal jobs and now is economically depressed
[03:45:42] <peloverde> hence rusted
[03:46:22] <saintdev> never heard that before
[05:08:16] <kshishkov> peloverde: I heard Nero AAC encoder creator saying that iTunes AAC encoder was very good
[05:08:50] <kshishkov> mostly because they hired a student of original MP3 and AAC creator to improve^W totally rewrite psychoacoustic model
[05:26:49] <pJok> god morgon kshishkov
[05:29:06] <thresh> moroning
[05:31:20] <kshishkov> god morgon
[05:36:49] <astrange> http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2010/0070287.html
[06:37:56] <Tjoppen> god morgon
[06:44:50] <Tjoppen> epic drama yesterday it seems
[06:57:02] <av500> yes
[07:07:24] <superdump> ?
[07:07:52] <superdump> Tjoppen: drama?
[07:07:58] <superdump> i guess i missed it
[07:08:44] <Tjoppen> mmx/pentiumpro flamewar sort of
[07:11:34] <superdump> oh
[07:11:38] <superdump> i see it
[07:19:06] <thresh> and no flame on a64 :(
[07:20:05] <kshishkov> and it takes a long time to roast elefant^Wlibavsequencer
[07:24:59] <thresh> kshishkov: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrXIB8qm14Q
[07:26:00] <av500> ?
[07:26:01] <kshishkov> thresh: к чему бы это,
[07:26:18] <kshishkov> av500: nothing to do with your name, don't worry
[07:26:22] <av500> :)
[07:26:33] <av500> who is the guy?
[07:26:40] <thresh> the president of ukraine
[07:26:43] <av500> ah
[07:27:01] <thresh> says hello to both Putin and Medvedev, "Vladimir" and "Anatolyevich"
[07:27:53] <thresh> kshishkov: да так, в порядке утреннего потребления кофе
[07:27:55] <kshishkov> does that mean he revers Medvedev more?
[07:28:38] <kshishkov> thresh: интересно, а много ли людей называют пару Медведев-Янукович "Винни-Пух и Пятачок"?
[07:29:34] <thresh> is there any built-in way to benchmark ffmpeg?
[07:29:47] <thresh> i need to test with various --enable-foo flags
[07:29:47] <av500> with or without mmx?
[07:30:02] <thresh> well, i want to enable cmov in my builds for i586
[07:30:04] <kshishkov> thresh: ffmpeg -benchmark -i infile outfile
[07:30:29] <thresh> kshishkov: at first I thought this is a joke
[07:30:39] <thresh> when will ffmpeg have --make-coffee?
[07:30:59] <kshishkov> when you add it
[07:31:08] * kshishkov has no need in coffee anyway
[07:31:32] <thresh> well there is RFC2324...
[07:32:55] <kshishkov> ffmpeg -i infile.mp4 -f espresso coffee://output.file
[07:33:51] <kshishkov> it would be hard to convince people to add "java" flavour though
[07:40:51] <Tjoppen> is there a reason why lavc refuses to resample > 2 channels, even though the input and output channel counts are the same
[07:41:07] <kshishkov> yes, retarded resampler
[07:41:30] <Tjoppen> indeed. I can understand it refusing to make 5.1 -> stereo for instance, but just 4.0 -> 4.0 ought to work
[07:41:38] <kshishkov> somebody, including you, hasn't worked on multichnnel resampling and it's hardwired for mono/stereo only
[07:42:15] <Tjoppen> I actually did dig into the resampling code quite a bit. I discovered several WTFs
[07:43:13] <Tjoppen> like it introducing unacceptable delay without any way to ask how many milliseconds the filters delay the output for
[07:43:37] <Tjoppen> fun experiment: resample 48 kHz to 8 kHz. receive flapping mouths
[07:47:48] <pJok> *grmbl*
[07:48:57] <kshishkov> Tjoppen: I heard of Zelda CD-i games
[07:50:06] <Tjoppen> kshishkov: yes, such games exist. the angry video game nerd reviewed them
[07:50:25] <Tjoppen> I'm not sure what they have to do with resampling though :)
[07:50:52] <kshishkov> for some reason "flapping mouths", out-of-pitch and desynced sound reminded me of them
[07:51:25] * kshishkov also is disappointed - why http://www.vasabryggeri.nu/ does not feature a colour umbrella on start page
[07:52:12] <Tjoppen> heh
[07:55:05] * kshishkov also finds another reason to visit Sundsvall - see red seal on http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fil:Trocadero_karameller.JPG
[07:56:12] <av500> "only eat while its raining"?
[07:56:39] <kshishkov> nope
[07:58:27] <Tjoppen> we have them in the fik at school
[07:58:58] <Tjoppen> hm.. "cafeteria" is a suitable translation
[07:59:45] * kshishkov smiles at Swedish definition of "semester"
[08:01:07] <kshishkov> it's definitely better than semester in any other country
[08:02:11] <superdump> isn't it like holiday or something?
[08:02:18] <kshishkov> vacation
[08:02:27] <superdump> whereas in english it seems to be a period of work
[08:02:31] <superdump> :)
[08:02:37] <Tjoppen> germany's is like twice as long, right?
[08:02:54] <kshishkov> superdump: in .ua it's period of study
[08:02:55] <av500> ?
[08:03:07] <av500> germany has 2 semesters/year at uni
[08:03:11] <superdump> normally is in english too
[08:03:13] <superdump> yeah
[08:03:25] <superdump> many universities have two semesters
[08:03:30] <superdump> the one i went to had trimesters
[08:03:33] <superdump> 3x10 weeks
[08:03:43] <kshishkov> but in .ua study at university usually has little to do with work
[08:03:44] <superdump> but the swedish meaning is nicer
[08:10:40] * pJok hates it when he is put to work on broken audio
[08:10:53] <pJok> im a technician, not an audio guy >_<
[08:11:33] * KotH hands pJok a screwdriver
[08:11:39] <av500> how do you unbreak audio?
[08:11:50] <av500> force people to unlisten?
[08:12:13] <KotH> is that something like unseen?
[08:12:19] <av500> unheard of
[08:12:21] <pJok> av500, something like that... my problem is that ffmpeg trashes an audiofile completely... but that ffmpeg isn't a box standard one
[08:12:40] <pJok> so i can't even file a bug report :P
[08:13:15] <av500> you can try and get ridiculed :)
[08:13:31] <pJok> but the problem hasn't occured before, so im kinda wondering what else i can do about this... since ffmpeg can't deliver same peak levels on output as on input :)
[08:13:47] <pJok> (which is what the non-box standard ffmpeg i have does)
[08:13:52] <av500> well, are the non std changes to ff audio related?
[08:14:23] <pJok> no, i just had my ffmpeg patched in a very ugly way to help me out with delivering peak perfect audio
[08:34:28] <lu_zero> moin
[08:43:48] <spaam> god morgon
[08:44:10] <kshishkov> precis
[09:12:37] * av500 lols at url: http://tagesschau.vo.llnwd.net/d3/video/2010/0827/TV-20100827-0501-4001.webm.h264.mp4
[09:13:23] <spaam> Nice
[09:13:28] <av500> putting .webm. in your filename makes you l33t
[09:17:41] <Tjoppen> do I-frames in open GOPs count as key frames?
[09:19:23] <av500> I count them as that, but I am not authorative :)
[09:38:27] * KotH gives av500 some authority ;-)
[09:39:02] <av500> thx
[09:39:05] <spaam> nooo :O
[09:40:14] <av500> KotH: I can now ban all?
[09:40:17] <av500> :)
[09:40:34] <KotH> all but me and the master troll :)
[09:52:31] <thresh> enabling cmov with --cpu='i686' on my c2d results in 0.8% faster in average
[10:00:56] <KotH> thresh: is that statistically significant?
[10:01:43] <av500> what is the variation?
[10:02:41] <av500> hmm: http://ondioline.org/mail/cmov-a-bad-idea-on-out-of-order-cpus
[10:06:06] <thresh> KotH: i'm waiting for results from older CPUs yet
[10:06:20] <thresh> and yeah, it's a good idea to try to remember probability theory once in a while
[10:07:38] <KotH> thresh: that's the answer to a different question
[10:07:39] <av500> if its half/half 150.8% faster and 50% slower, its still 0.8% faster on average :)
[10:07:58] <thresh> nah, it's always faster
[10:08:08] <KotH> thresh: if 0.2% is smaller than the stddev, then it's definitly not statistically siginificant
[10:08:18] <thresh> KotH: yes, I remember that :)
[10:08:28] <thresh> 0.8% you mean
[10:08:40] <KotH> er.. yes 0.8%
[10:20:42] <av500> mru: http://bloggingthemonkey.blogspot.com/2010/08/ffpv8-neon-720p24.html
[10:20:49] <mru> av500: yes, I know
[10:20:55] <av500> k
[10:20:57] <mru> I've been helping him
[10:21:01] <av500> :)
[10:21:16] <av500> it does 720p?
[10:21:19] <spaam> ffpv8?
[10:21:24] <av500> yes
[10:21:28] <mru> I haven't tested it
[10:21:42] <av500> as soon as it hits 720p I can deploy it :)
[10:21:49] <spaam> ffpv8 is that a typo or what does the p stand for?
[10:22:08] <av500> p as in 720p :)
[10:22:21] <spaam> ok :)
[10:23:16] <kshishkov> but why it's spoiled by mentioning gst?
[10:24:29] <av500> coz he is from wtfbu
[10:34:58] <av500> mru: 20% faster than libvpx will not make 720p play :(
[10:35:41] <mru> he's been working on an omap4
[10:36:56] <av500> yes
[10:37:02] <av500> i just realized
[10:37:26] <spaam> omap4 is fast?
[10:37:46] <av500> yes, if you can do mt
[10:37:55] <av500> dual core
[10:38:03] <mru> it's fast on a single core too
[10:38:35] <mru> it's 1GHz, and each cycle does more
[10:38:40] <mru> and the memory is faster
[10:40:15] <kshishkov> so it's better all around
[10:40:27] <mru> it's omap4, it's one better
[10:40:37] <av500> same for the A9 cpu
[10:41:03] <mru> so two better in all
[10:41:11] <cartman> omap4 boards out yet?
[10:41:14] <av500> some
[10:41:16] <av500> few
[10:41:21] <av500> they are all with linaro
[10:41:24] <cartman> neato
[10:41:27] <mru> inside wtfbu they have plenty
[10:41:36] <av500> and inside canonical :)
[10:41:38] <cartman> WTF Business Unit or what
[10:41:43] <av500> WBU
[10:41:47] <av500> wireless bu
[10:41:49] <av500> os TI
[10:41:50] <mru> wtbu
[10:41:55] <mru> wbtu
[10:41:58] <mru> can't remember
[10:42:02] <av500> i think they dropped the "t"
[10:42:05] <mru> oh
[10:42:05] <cartman> :D
[10:42:22] <av500> coz terminals was to phone centric
[10:43:38] <mru> and the f?
[10:43:51] <av500> f?
[10:44:50] <kshishkov> av500: it definitely was WTFBU and you claim it's WBU now
[10:45:13] <av500> it was wtbu, wtfbu only to close "friends"
[10:45:43] <kshishkov> so 'f' was for "friends-only"
[10:49:16] <mru> friends-only is an accurate description of that unit
[10:49:23] <mru> as in who they'll talk to
[10:49:59] <av500> once you friend them, you are allowed to shout at them :)
[10:56:51] <mru> that cmov rant was a bit lacking
[10:56:59] <mru> there's much more to it than that
[10:57:28] <mru> mispredicting a branch even 10% of the time might cause a slowdown
[10:57:43] <mru> and even if it predicts correctly 100% of the time, it uses up a branch predictor slot
[10:57:53] <av500> mru: thats why I added a "hmm" :)
[11:02:28] <mru> and is there really only one physical set of flags?
[11:02:40] <mru> I'd expect any register renaming machine to have several sets
[11:10:15] <jonwil> hmmm, ffmpeg-devel mailing list is not as noisy as I thought it would be :)
[11:10:29] <jonwil> Means I can stay subscribed and not worry about being overrun by messages
[11:10:46] <mru> you can't have been subscribed yesterday...
[11:11:18] <thresh> -benchmark sometimes give ridiculous values :/
[11:11:21] <thresh> gives
[11:11:41] <mru> did you decode a ridiculous video?
[11:11:56] <mru> it only prints whatever the OS told it
[11:11:57] <thresh> like bench: utime=24.446s maxrss=39948kB and then bench: utime=18.541s maxrss=39956kB and then bench: utime=1.384s maxrss=39952kB for 800MB h264 -> mpeg2 using ffmpeg -benchmark -i Futurama.\[S06E01\].mp4 foo.mp4
[11:12:03] <thresh> mru: yeah I just read the code and WTFed myself
[11:12:25] <thresh> s/mpeg2/mpeg4
[11:12:49] <thresh> and ffmpeg does that conversion on slow machine in like 40 minutes
[11:12:59] <mru> OS?
[11:13:12] <mru> roughly how long does it actually take on this machine?
[11:13:15] <thresh> 32bit Linux
[11:14:03] <thresh> mru: reporter says 'tens of minutes'
[11:14:14] <mru> oh, it's a luser report?
[11:14:17] <mru> ignore it then
[11:14:49] <thresh> he's a develolper more..
[11:15:10] <thresh> and is not cluless.. never can be sure though
[11:17:12] <janneg> I've seen strange results with time ffmpeg -benchmark too
[11:24:46] <Tjoppen> setting AVInputFormat::codec_tag looks like a good idea
[11:25:13] <Tjoppen> also simplified my codec_id lookup code thanks to ff_codec_get_id() :)
[11:25:40] <mru> setting codec_tag is pointless
[11:25:45] <mru> the field has no defined meaning
[11:26:08] <twice11> great field for job security, then ;)
[11:29:22] <Tjoppen> maybe if previously unknown tags pop up. before being commited to svn, the user can hackishly detect them and set codec_id manually
[11:30:03] <Tjoppen> also, for remuxing data belonging to unknown codecs to/from the same container. but yeah..
[11:31:03] <mru> codec_tag might make sense in AVStream
[11:31:08] <mru> not in AVCodec
[11:31:11] <mru> context
[11:31:58] <Tjoppen> indeed. well, at sort of makes sense for choosing IDCT
[11:32:06] <mru> no
[11:32:36] <mru> you have no fucking clue what idct the encoder used
[11:33:12] <mru> if the encoder put an identifying comment in the bitstream itself, you might be able to guess
[11:33:19] <kshishkov> yes, it was fun with Xvid
[11:33:48] <Tjoppen> yes, that's the case I'm thinking of. for xvid it appearently had a point
[11:33:49] <mru> if everybody used a spec-compliant idct it wouldn't be so much of a problem
[11:34:05] <mru> Tjoppen: yes, but the codec_tag doesn't identify the xvid version accurately enough
[11:34:17] <mru> and even the same version might use different idcts
[11:34:24] <mru> depending on mmx available etc
[11:34:26] <Tjoppen> ah, true. should probably use its own field any way, if detectable at all
[11:35:02] <Tjoppen> I think we elaborated on this earlier. I was wtf:ing about codec_tag being used to signal which pixel format is used for rawvideo
[11:37:08] <mru> yes, that's one of the dirtier parts of ffmpeg
[11:54:44] <Tjoppen> there. now my LXF demuxer works fairly well with all the samples that I've got. any suggestions before I post it on the ML? apart from uploading samples of course
[11:54:56] <mru> lxf?
[11:55:07] <Tjoppen> Leitch VR native stream format
[11:55:07] <mru> how mane ?xf formats are there?
[11:55:08] <janneg> patcheck
[11:55:18] <janneg> 26?
[11:55:39] <Tjoppen> lxf is nothing like gxf or mxf. it's basically a binary dump of their LLM hardware memory
[11:55:58] <Tjoppen> at least I think so. the "specs" are fairly vague
[11:58:36] <Tjoppen> for instance, it doesn't even hint at how to handle B-frames, and I don't have any samples to look at
[11:58:50] <Tjoppen> samples with B-frames that is
[12:03:08] <merbzt> Tjoppen: splendid :)
[12:03:34] <merbzt> is it a HD camera or something ?
[12:05:05] <Tjoppen> 19" rack equipment of some kind
[12:06:43] <mru> now you can get that HD footage of fans you've always wanted
[12:07:48] <KotH> Tjoppen: "nice rack" gets a whole new meaning ;-)
[12:08:16] <Tjoppen> :)
[12:16:21] <Tjoppen> forgot to bump minor version. good catch by the FAQ :)
[12:16:55] <Tjoppen> ah, and documentation. of course
[12:18:48] <merbzt> patch for old unused code ! \o/
[12:19:34] <kshishkov> merbzt: you forgot to add that YUVJ420 is deprecated too
[12:19:59] <kshishkov> since such colourspace details should not belong to pixfmt
[12:20:16] <merbzt> didn't know that
[12:20:26] <merbzt> I just made it work  for me :)
[12:21:45] * kshishkov goes offline for the rest of the day
[12:21:57] <av500> you get a ram upgrade?
[12:26:18] <pJok> digital delivery for broadcasters will probably kill me...
[12:26:35] <pJok> since they all want something different... with a digibeta tape it was much easier
[12:47:16] <jonwil> hmmm, damn, FFMPEG doesn't have a MP3 encoder, it just uses LAME. Thats going to make producing an EALayer3 encoder harder :(
[12:47:34] <mru> you could write an mp3 encoder first
[12:47:44] <mru> that would be most welcome
[12:47:54] <jonwil> I know zilch about MP3 audio
[12:48:04] <jonwil> and how the actual compression part works
[12:48:24] <mru> qmf+mdct
[12:48:31] <mru> +quant+huff
[12:48:35] <av500> jonwil: hos does EALayer3  differ from mp3?
[12:48:42] <av500> how
[12:48:51] <jonwil> The compression is the same, the difference is in the granule header
[12:48:59] <av500> so, just bitstream changes
[12:49:03] <jonwil> yes
[12:49:15] <av500> so, use lame and postprocess
[12:49:20] <Tjoppen> just have the encoder look for a suitable mp3 encoder then
[12:49:23] <av500> bitstream filter
[12:50:37] <jonwil> The other difference is that EALayer3 supports more than 2 channels
[12:52:31] <jonwil> And there are a couple of WTFs in the format too (like the fact that some granules can include extra uncompressed samples after the compressed MPEG data)
[12:53:10] <av500> you dont have to implement that on encoder side, no?
[12:53:21] <jonwil> well it exists for a reason I would guess
[12:53:42] <av500> until u know that reason, you cannot implement it anyway
[12:53:49] <jonwil> true
[12:53:53] <av500> how would you decide what not to compress?
[12:54:09] <jonwil> Its a pity we dont have an official encoder for this format :(
[12:54:25] <av500> send a pcm sample for ea :)
[12:54:26] <jonwil> But EA said "We cant release an encoder due to patents" or some crap :P
[12:54:28] <av500> to ea
[12:54:50] <av500> jonwil: they might be afraid of mp3 patents
[12:55:00] <av500> but they could release the diff on top of mp3
[12:56:44] <jonwil> hmmm, I should look around some of the Sims communities, aparently one of the Sims games uses EALayer3 in some form, people there might have info or connections to EA...
[13:42:50] <thresh> kshishkov: still here?
[13:43:18] <thresh> kshishkov: http://www.darip.ru/files/file/pochtofon 45 billion roubles for a MFD!
[14:01:54] <BBB> does anyone mind if I commit my yasmification of inline asm? I'm not getting any review
[14:02:12] <BBB> make fate-vp3 passes with sse2 disabled and enabled on x86-64 and x86-32
[14:03:04] <mru> did you send a patch?
[14:03:05] <av500> thresh: postofon, wtf?
[14:03:39] <mru> ah yes, you did
[14:04:21] <BBB> I did, and fixed it
[14:04:24] <BBB> can send a new one
[14:04:29] <mru> no, I see it
[14:04:35] <BBB> I made some changes
[14:05:01] <mru> since the second patch?
[14:06:05] <BBB> yes
[14:06:14] <mru> then send it
[14:06:17] <BBB> just did
[14:06:54] <BBB> I'm working on slowly moving h264_chroma_mc code to yasm also, but that takes a little longer...
[14:07:08] <BBB> because it's such an entangled mess with rv40 && vc1
[14:07:23] <av500> ignore fringe formats :)
[14:07:23] <mru> yes, it is
[14:07:57] <jonwil> VC1 isnt a fringe format :P
[14:08:06] <mru> oh yes it is
[14:08:26] <mru> I bet rv40 is more widely used even
[14:08:30] <av500> yes
[14:08:33] <mru> china is big..
[14:08:37] <av500> in that tiny .cn
[14:08:52] <jonwil> Isn't VC1 an official format for Blu-Ray disks?
[14:08:59] <av500> yes
[14:09:28] <BBB> jonwil: you need encoders for people to create disks carrying vc1 content
[14:09:33] <mru> but few discs use it
[14:09:37] <av500> but only used for tv stuff
[14:09:44] <av500> bbc docus
[14:09:51] <av500> not for movies
[14:09:52] <mru> I have a regular film in vc1
[14:09:54] <jonwil> Most people I guess would use MPEG4 for blu-ray
[14:09:56] <mru> don't remember which one
[14:10:12] <jonwil> because its more widely supported with good encoders
[14:10:15] <mru> on bluray, that is
[14:10:17] <BBB> that sounds like "I have one of those antique fringe barbie games that you won't find anywhere else"
[14:10:32] <BBB> "it uses this awesome tucomposer mod file format that you won't find anywhere else"
[14:10:41] <BBB> "IT IS USED!!!!11223"
[14:11:17] <BBB> I wonder why I agreed to have him implement tcm for gsoc, rather than regular mod formats such as x3m or so
[14:12:31] <jonwil> if I was still a student, I would go for GSOC, so many formats it would be usefull to me to have an en/decoder for... :P
[14:13:18] <av500> BBB: tcm is for barbie games?
[14:13:23] <mru> BBB: I wonder why he was accepted at all
[14:13:37] <jonwil> Although someone already did a Bink encoder
[14:13:53] <jonwil> I mean decoder
[14:14:32] <elenril> hey, bink is useful =p
[14:14:39] * elenril has more bink videos than vc1
[14:14:39] <jonwil> yes its usefull
[14:14:49] <jonwil> but someone already did it
[14:17:31] <mru> BBB: flim?
[14:21:11] <thresh> av500: another 'innovative device'
[14:25:48] <twice11> I think they started with tucomposer, because that format has such an overdesigned overcomplication that *all* other module formats can be converted into it.
[14:26:02] <twice11> So if you can play tcm, you can play everything.
[14:26:10] <twice11> maybe except s3m with FM-synth voices.
[14:29:19] <jonwil> The way FFMPEG is going, I wouldn't be surprised to see MIDI support in there at some point :P
[14:29:33] <av500> that way is going slow
[14:30:05] <jonwil> I guess like anything the answer is "if you want it, write some code or stop complaining" :P
[14:31:20] <twice11> Can we have a DirectMusic based mixer? (/me hides away)
[14:32:05] <twice11> Yeah, and EAX, OpenAL and Emu8K/Emu10K linux drivers, too!!!
[14:32:24] <jonwil> The hard part with MIDI is finding a free-as-in-free set of music instrument samples to use in your synth.
[14:32:35] * KotH wouldnt mind some working sound drivers for linux
[14:32:55] <av500> and dont forget, we need sub ms latency
[14:32:56] * twice11 knows about the problem with free patch sets.
[14:33:35] <twice11> Yes, wee need sub-ms synth latency and have to kope with systems that have 50ms scheduling latency at the same time!
[14:33:58] <mru> eawpatches used to be good...
[14:34:36] <BBB> mru: flim is a term that happens all over the place in vp8, I don't know what it is
[14:34:42] <BBB> mru: vp8 has a "flim" also
[14:34:57] <mru> so it's cargo cult?
[14:35:11] * av500 knows flim flam
[14:35:40] <BBB> yeah
[14:36:05] <restrex> how can I disable swscale on ffmpeg?
[14:36:22] <av500> --disable-swscale?
[14:36:26] <restrex> on the configure I put --disable-swscale, but it return: Unknown option "--disable-swscale".
[14:36:43] <mru> lib
[14:37:00] <av500> --disable-libswscale?
[14:37:08] <BBB> yeah
[14:37:11] <av500> a/?/!/
[14:37:13] <av500> s
[14:37:18] * mru invokes koen rule #3
[14:37:56] * av500 reminds mru of ?id=19
[14:38:30] <mru> thanks
[14:41:22] <restrex> Unknown option "--disable-libswscale". av500
[14:42:04] <mru> --disable-swscale it is
[14:42:05] <av500>   --disable-swscale        disable libswscale build
[14:42:16] <av500> straight from grepping configure....
[14:42:44] <av500> mru: btw, got 96db of rain atm....
[14:43:07] <mru> what's the baseline?
[14:43:29] <av500> havent seen baseline that for weeks....
[14:43:35] <av500> -that
[14:43:56] <twice11> restrex: --disable-swscale works (for recent ffmpeg versions).
[14:44:01] <twice11> Tested right now.
[14:44:01] <mru> I mean what's 0dB
[14:44:07] <av500> mru: I know
[14:44:49] <av500> Taklamkan Desert
[14:45:42] <av500> +a
[14:45:54] <restrex> twice11, I'm compiling the rev. 20231
[14:46:07] <av500> ancient
[14:46:11] <restrex> --disable-swscale seems not to work there
[14:46:30] <restrex> av500, I need it to use this patch http://lists.mplayerhq.hu/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2009-October/077506.html
[14:46:52] <restrex> it makes CBR MPEG-2 Transport Streams
[14:46:57] <av500> restrex: u cant disable it in this version
[14:47:18] <av500> at least configure gives no option
[14:47:27] <av500> but that you have seen yourself, havent you
[14:47:34] <restrex> then I wonder what's the problem with it... It gets stuck when compiling swscale
[14:47:48] <av500> libswstuck then
[14:47:53] <J_Darnley> Did you get a matching version of libswscale?
[14:48:18] <twice11> How do you find out which version matches?
[14:48:25] <J_Darnley> Get one from the same date
[14:48:46] <J_Darnley> IIRC: -r '{DATE}'
[14:49:06] <twice11> Ah, nice to have date support.
[14:49:26] <restrex> J_Darnley, twice11, I think the libswscale is already included in the source code... so I didn't have to find any matching version for it. One of the 20+ errors is: "error: ‘PIX_FMT_PAL’ undeclared (first use in this function)"
[14:50:10] <J_Darnley> If you get an old ffmpeg, you need to get an old libswsacle
[14:50:37] <J_Darnley> If you got it vis svn anyway
[14:50:41] <J_Darnley> *via
[14:50:49] <restrex> yes, via svn
[14:51:27] <twice11> I'm afraid you end up with ancient ffmpeg + up-to-date swscale if you are not very careful.
[14:52:05] <BBB> hi J_Darnley, will your team go to ovc, as we discussed earlier?
[14:52:14] <restrex> ok, I'm going to get versions of ffmpeg and libswscale from the same date of the ffmpeg rev. 20231
[14:52:22] <J_Darnley> My team?
[14:52:33] <J_Darnley> I think you mean someone else
[14:52:40] <BBB> uhm...
[14:52:44] <restrex> thanks guys.
[14:53:14] <BBB> let me find the right one, maybe I'm confused
[14:55:29] <superdump> merbzt: ping?
[14:56:35] <BBB> superdump: nice work on amrwb btw
[14:56:46] <superdump> wasn't me
[14:56:50] <BBB> you mentored?
[14:56:52] <cartman> shaggy
[14:56:56] <superdump> i merely guided marcelo through it when he got stuck
[14:57:03] <superdump> he did all the work
[14:57:09] <BBB> is marcelo on irc?
[14:57:31] <superdump> nope
[14:57:32] <restrex> twice11, libswscale is in the ffmpeg code... ls -la | grep libswscale > drwxr-xr-x  8 user user   4096 2010-08-27 10:30 libswscale
[14:57:43] <superdump> merbzt: never mind :))
[14:58:58] <twice11> libswscale is an external reference pulled in by svn.
[14:59:28] <restrex> so... what version would you suggest to get?
[15:00:12] <twice11> Go into the libswscale directory and run svn log | less
[15:00:27] <twice11> Or even better, use the data syntax suggested in this channel.
[15:01:37] <twice11> so that's "cd libswscale; svn update -r '{2009-10-14}'
[15:03:33] <restrex> thanks twice11!
[15:04:50] <restrex> it worked now :)
[15:05:20] <Tjoppen> </work>
[15:05:26] <Tjoppen> <beer>
[15:05:47] <restrex> haha
[15:19:07] <restrex> the patch that makes the output cbr seems not to work...
[15:19:19] <restrex> how should I stuff null packets on a TS to make it CBR?
[15:20:07] <restrex> it's really VBR and it causes my receiver to put freezing frames and some other quirks... but when I look at it with VLC it seems to work awesomely...
[15:25:59] * restrex is frustrated
[15:37:01] <restrex> guys... any ideas to make a true cbr mpeg-2 video?
[15:38:46] * KotH wonders whether perl6 will become the new hurd
[15:39:17] <av500> restrex: add padding?
[16:01:09] <restrex> av500, thanks, I will try that
[16:01:11] <restrex> :)
[16:01:45] <av500> [17:19:07] <restrex> the patch that makes the output cbr seems not to work...
[16:01:53] <av500> what does not work?
[16:02:12] <restrex> the output video is still not even near to CBR
[16:02:31] <restrex> it fluctuates between 2.47 to 2.66 MB/s
[16:02:54] <restrex> which makes my MPEG-2 receiver to freeze frames
[16:04:04] <restrex> the parameters I'm using to make it CBR  are: -vcodec mpeg2video -b 2600k -maxrate 2600k -minrate 2600k -bf 2 -bufsize 1800000
[16:04:04] <av500> then i guess you need to improve the patch
[16:05:49] <restrex> av500, oh you're from Germany. I was there a month a ago... i really loved it! I loved curry wursts, hehe.
[16:09:46] <av500> mahlzeit
[16:49:08] <av500> http://arstechnica.com/media/news/2010/08/mpeg-la-counters-google-webm-with-permanent-royalty-moratorium.ars?comments=1#comment-20750228
[16:51:38] <Tjoppen> if only the us would drop software patents. and germany
[16:51:48] <peloverde> These idiots on the web don't realize that if you are using H.264 you are supposed sign an agreement with MPEG-LA even if you don't owe them any royalties
[16:52:41] <peloverde> I;m sick of these people who think they are qualified to comment on this just because they use a web browser
[16:52:53] <ohsix> they're realizing a lot less than that :P
[16:53:58] <jonwil> Software patents are evil and should never have been allowed
[16:54:23] <av500> its not a sw patent
[16:55:02] <ohsix> that sir is irony
[16:58:42] <Dark_Shikari> it's a "patent"
[16:58:45] <Dark_Shikari> it may apply to software
[16:58:49] <Dark_Shikari> (it may also apply to other things)
[17:01:08] <iive> it's not only sw patents, patents as institution should be abolished. At least in their current form and implementation.
[17:01:55] <av500> patents should be required to "disclose" something
[17:02:08] <av500> if i can figure out how it works without reading the patent, it should be void
[17:03:14] <mru> it discloses that I filed for it
[17:03:28] <mru> and that I'm a prick
[17:03:52] <Tjoppen> I think we'd get a long way with just some reform
[17:03:59] <av500> shoot
[17:04:01] <av500> all
[17:04:02] <av500> patent
[17:04:04] <av500> lawyers
[17:04:07] <Tjoppen> *trolls
[17:06:39] <KotH> av500: well.. you can figure out everything w/o reading a patent.. given enough time and money
[17:06:59] <av500> KotH: yes, it cost you time and money
[17:07:13] <KotH> or brain
[17:07:16] <av500> so disclosing helps the common good
[17:07:28] <av500> if there is nothing to disclose e.g. one-click-buy
[17:07:32] <av500> it serves no common good
[17:07:42] <av500> or pinch zoom
[17:07:55] <iive> well, if it costs you less time than patent duration, then maybe it is too obvious.
[17:08:12] <ohsix> if you have multiple inputs its an obvious gesture, thats a decent example
[17:08:48] <av500> patent system was disclosure to further common good in return for royalties
[17:08:54] <ohsix> theres just too much stuff thats obvious as stuff changes
[17:08:56] <av500> these days, it is not any more
[17:09:14] <av500> today it is disclose obvious stuff
[17:09:22] <av500> and troll others
[17:10:00] <ohsix> and keep some district courts in texas busy
[17:10:06] <av500> yes
[17:10:07] * KotH discloses how to troll people
[17:10:10] <av500> been there, done that
[17:10:16] <av500> not fun
[17:10:27] <mru> KotH: that's obvious to anyone skilled in the art
[17:11:16] <KotH> mru: i'll forumlate it in a way that even people skilled in the art will not be able to tell what i'm discolsing
[17:11:39] <mru> now _that_ is an art
[17:12:26] <KotH> practiced by many patent lawyers
[17:12:58] <av500> KotH: its a tricky thing
[17:13:11] <av500> you want a court in the end to be able to tell what you are disclosing
[17:14:14] <mru> no, you want to tell the court what you are disclosing
[17:14:23] <mru> i.e. whatever that other guys is selling
[17:14:33] <KotH> exactl
[17:14:56] <KotH> the last company i worked for had a patent dispute with a company in australia over one part of the algo they were using
[17:15:36] <av500> lol: "“The MPEG-LA announcement doesn’t change anything for the next four years, since this promise was already made through 2014,” he says in the statement shared with the The Reg. “Given that IEC [International Electrotechnical Commission] has already started accepting submissions for patents in the replacement H.265 standard, and the rise of unencumbered formats like WebM, it is not clear if H.264 will still be relevant in 2014.
[17:15:36] <KotH> and that part was structure, that had some stricing resamblance to a wavelet filter....
[17:15:55] <av500> mpeg2 is how old and relevant today....
[17:16:35] <janneg> over tweny years?
[17:16:46] <ohsix> mpeg2 has hardware investmentstuff
[17:16:53] <av500> so will h264 have
[17:16:58] <av500> in 2014
[17:17:10] <av500> it will not evaporate into h265 over night
[17:17:30] <jonwil> I hope WebM takes over as the dominant format for web video (which is what Google wants)
[17:17:32] <ohsix> not to the same degree, you can do tons in software
[17:17:45] <janneg> I would say even mpeg2 will have some relevance in 2014
[17:17:56] <peloverde> H.264, MPEG-2 and MPEG-1 audio are here forever
[17:18:10] <ohsix> all the STB's i've got aren't going to be replaced before 2014 :D
[17:18:24] * KotH thinks that by 2014 we will care more about how to convert that parking lot across the street into a field than what video format is still relevant and why
[17:18:56] <jonwil> Given the number of DVDs I have of films that are never likely to be released on blu-ray, MPEG2 ain't going anywhere for me anytime soon :P
[17:19:06] <av500> jonwil: we say "hope dies last" :)
[17:19:38] * KotH kills av500 
[17:19:47] <av500> i had no hope anyway
[17:19:51] <KotH> now we can kill this hope guy
[17:20:00] <av500> gogogo
[17:20:14] <twice11> And then no one dies anymore?
[17:20:29] <KotH> no, everyone else is already dead
[22:09:04] <astrange> http://arstechnica.com/software/reviews/2010/08/rockplayer-brings-ffmpeg-video-playback-to-android.ars so ars just posts obviously pirated video screencaps now?
[22:38:15] <_av500_> yeah
[22:52:02] <BBB> Dark_Shikari: in yasm, if I want to do an if/else statement (regular asm, not simd pcmp*), if I do a jmp (e.g. jne) to something after (instead of before, as in a loop) the statement, does that still work?
[22:52:09] <BBB> I get errors when the label is after a RET
[22:53:22] <Dark_Shikari> you have to do functionname.label
[22:54:12] <BBB> in the jne?
[22:54:22] <BBB> ok
[23:06:02] <pengvado> any instance of ".label" is implicitly converted to "currentfunctionname.label", so if it's in a different function you need to explicitly specify that functionname.
[23:06:36] <pengvado> before/after doesn't matter
[23:06:39] <pengvado> RET doesn't matter
[23:34:59] <mru> multiple entry points?
[23:35:00] <mru> fun
[23:37:17] <BBB> x86 is so much fun
[23:37:38] <roxfan> no shit