[FFmpeg-devel-irc] IRC log for 2010-05-27

[irc at mansr.com]

[00:09:38] <ohsix> spillcam is looking at the topkill now
[00:10:17] <ohsix> apparently they switched it to an ROV camera since i last looked
[00:29:50] <hyc> Dark_Shikari: so, got enough useful data?
[00:29:57] <hyc> keep in mind this is only 600MHz
[00:32:42] <CIA-93> ffmpeg: michael * r23343 /trunk/ffplay.c:
[00:32:42] <CIA-93> ffmpeg: Fix pts reordering code.
[00:32:42] <CIA-93> ffmpeg: This fixes a regression introduced when libavfilter support was added to ffplay.
[00:33:20] <Dark_Shikari> hyc: I got less than a 2x boost
[00:33:21] <Dark_Shikari> dunno why
[00:33:26] <Dark_Shikari> maybe the source file.
[00:34:16] <Dark_Shikari> wtf your system doesn't have coreutils?
[00:34:41] <hyc> the base install is pretty bare
[00:34:45] <Dark_Shikari> lol no coreutils
[00:35:02] <Dark_Shikari> "make install" doesn't even work =p
[00:35:09] <Dark_Shikari> anyways you now have x264
[00:36:22] <hyc> thanks, but this is my test card, I usually wipe it out each time I start playing with it
[00:36:28] <Dark_Shikari>  :/
[00:36:29] <Dark_Shikari> why
[00:37:22] <hyc> the OS hasn't been decvalred stable, each release changes a bunch of stuff
[00:37:28] <hyc> easier to start over from scratch
[00:37:39] <hyc> (declared)
[00:38:13] <hyc> I have 4-5 SD cards I shuffle around with different OS images on them
[00:38:27] <hyc> they all self-unpack using an AUFS filesystem
[00:38:40] <hyc> you wipe out /home and it rebuilds itself
[00:40:09] <hyc> it multiboots now too, there's an Android image and a Ubuntu image available
[01:29:58] <CIA-93> ffmpeg: cehoyos * r23344 /trunk/libavcodec/options.c:
[01:29:58] <CIA-93> ffmpeg: Some fields were incorrectly reset (to NULL) when calling avcodec_copy_context().
[01:29:58] <CIA-93> ffmpeg: Patch by Jean-Daniel Dupas, devlists shadowlab org
[04:26:28] <jai> Warning: post-commit hook failed (exit code 1) with output:
[04:26:29] <jai> error: Unable to append to .git/logs/refs/remotes/git-svn: Permission denied
[04:26:32] <jai> mru: ^
[04:26:44] <CIA-93> ffmpeg: jai_menon * r23345 /trunk/libavcodec/utils.c: Cosmetics : Fix typo.
[04:28:55] <jai> also, is roundup down?
[04:38:24] <Compn> roundup is down
[04:40:03] <CIA-93> ffmpeg: conrad * r23346 /trunk/libavcodec/vp3.c: vp3: Skip the loop filter when strength is 0 or when requested
[04:40:03] <CIA-93> ffmpeg: conrad * r23347 /trunk/libavcodec/dsputil.c: Add more const to _l4 pixel functions
[04:40:04] <CIA-93> ffmpeg: conrad * r23348 /trunk/libavcodec/ (dsputil.c dsputil.h): Add const to ff_emulated_edge_mc
[04:40:04] <CIA-93> ffmpeg: conrad * r23349 /trunk/libavcodec/ (allcodecs.c vp8_parser.c Makefile): VP8 parser
[05:54:47] <reynaldo> hi kostya
[05:55:24] * thresh helloes back
[05:58:05] <siretart> morning.
[05:58:52] <kshishkov> hej hej
[05:59:54] <reynaldo> time to get some sleep here. bye bye boys
[06:24:52] <_av500_> gm fellow comrades
[06:30:48] <kshishkov> guten morgen, kamerad _av500_
[07:18:24] <KotH> bon giorno
[07:34:20] <Tjoppen> morrn
[07:37:03] <kshishkov> god morgon
[09:04:01] <lu_zero> hi _av500_
[09:31:12] <pJok> god morgon, kshishkov :)
[09:33:14] <kshishkov> goda morgnar, pJok
[09:44:48] <Tjoppen> looks like I have an interesting task ahead of me: writing an LXF demuxer
[09:48:01] <KotH> LXF? league of extraoridnary furries?
[09:48:23] <Tjoppen> proprietery format be Harris/Leitch
[09:48:25] <kshishkov> loony exchange format is more likely
[09:48:26] <Tjoppen> *by
[09:48:49] <Tjoppen> which we'll preferrably want to support by adding to libavformat
[09:49:29] <KotH> who's "we"?
[09:50:54] <kshishkov> Kodbruk AB från Umeå?
[09:51:13] <Tjoppen> indeed. well, our customer
[09:56:46] <spaam> kshishkov: allt bra idag? :)
[09:56:59] <kshishkov> spaam: kanske
[09:57:26] <kshishkov> det ska komma klart imorgon
[09:58:24] <spaam> ok :)
[10:22:58] <KotH> .o0(why is it, that whenever i read "idag" i think of "ideg"?)
[10:23:23] <kshishkov> KotH: because you are not FFmpeg dev and you don't know Swedish
[10:23:35] <pJok> hehe
[10:23:37] * mru suspects the latter has more to do with it
[10:24:26] <KotH> kshishkov: i know the meaning
[10:24:30] <KotH> kshishkov: still, i think of ideg
[10:25:14] <mru> knowing the meaning is not knowing the language
[10:25:53] <KotH> well, nobody thaught me swedish yet
[10:26:08] <mru> nor english spelling, it would seem...
[10:26:19] <mru> (it's "taught")
[10:26:30] <mru> and "thought" of course
[10:27:31] <kshishkov> KotH: same story here
[10:29:35] <KotH> mru: the last words of my english teacher in high school were: "i'm glad that we dont have an english exam this year. you'd fail horribly"
[10:29:55] <mru> last words? before you killed him?
[10:30:17] <kshishkov> mru, he won't admit that on public
[10:36:09] * KotH wouldnt even admit it in private
[10:36:47] <KotH> np: kaji meiko - shura no hana
[10:40:28] <mru> !translate
[10:41:56] <mru> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/05/27/html5_hype/
[10:45:01] <lu_zero> yawn?
[10:45:08] <iive> KotH: you think of ideg, because you are still mplayer developer.
[10:48:41] <dezodorant> hi, what`s wrong with roundup?
[10:50:13] <twnqx> "invoice for server was eaten by spam assassin"
[10:55:02] <dezodorant> OM NOM NOM NOM
[11:24:47] <KotH> mru: do you know lady snowblood?
[11:24:56] <KotH> mru: or have you seen kill bill?
[11:25:24] <mru> no, yes
[11:25:48] <KotH> do you remember the japanese song that was always playing?
[11:26:11] <mru> too long since I watched it
[11:29:48] <jai> KotH: which one?
[11:29:59] <jai> KotH: the "theme"?
[11:30:16] <merbzt> battle without honor
[11:30:25] <jai> yeah, tomayasu hotei
[11:31:02] <KotH> jai: see dcc :)
[11:31:24] <jai> ah
[11:37:23] <dezodorant> how to switch off swscale build ?
[12:22:32] <dezodorant> still not fixed build without filters
[12:22:40] <dezodorant> ffmpeg.c:1657: undefined reference to `av_vsrc_buffer_add_frame'
[12:27:14] <kshishkov> send a patch
[12:44:03] <Tjoppen> does writing demuxers for subtitles (.srt for instance) seem like a good idea?
[12:44:32] <kshishkov> nope, it's raw data
[12:44:37] <kshishkov> you need just parser
[12:50:05] <merbzt> would be nice if it would be possible to render subtitles and convert them to bitmaps
[12:50:29] <merbzt> for later muxing or hard rendering
[12:50:40] <Compn> text2bitmap ?
[12:50:45] <Compn> srt2vobsub that is
[12:50:49] <Compn> probably exists already
[12:51:07] <merbzt> but not on thefly in ffmpeg
[12:51:12] <Compn> no, not in ffmpeg :)
[12:51:37] <Tjoppen> not quite sure what parsers do actually. but aren't they automatically inserted when opening demuxers?
[12:51:42] <jai> sub overlay would be nice
[12:51:54] <Tjoppen> since there's no demuxer for say .srt, ffmpeg can't make sense of it
[12:53:04] <Compn> oh you want a subtitle renderer for ffmpeg ?
[12:53:16] <Compn> isnt there an -scodec copy now ?
[12:53:19] <Tjoppen> no, I just want a subtitle stream out of a file
[12:53:58] <Compn> yeah ffmpeg has -scodec now :)
[12:53:58] <Tjoppen> in this case, imagine having subtitles in a separate file and wanting to mux them as well
[12:54:22] <Compn> well you want this then ? `-newsubtitle'
[12:54:22] <Compn> Add a new subtitle stream to the current output stream.
[12:55:15] <Tjoppen> yes, but from where does ffmpeg take the subtitles now? I know that there's various demuxers that produce them, but there are no "demuxers" that simply take some of the standard text/binary formats
[12:56:33] <Tjoppen> I imagine it'd quite easy to write say a .srt demuxer that outputs just one stream - AVMEDIA_TYPE_SUBTITLE, with correctly timestamped packets or something similar
[13:15:34] <Tjoppen> I hear no protests to such an approach. maybe I should write a proof-of-concept demux though
[13:15:41] <Tjoppen> +er
[13:27:59] <janneg> argh, could we please merge ffmpeg and libswscale git repos. git bisect is unuseable
[13:28:36] <janneg> especially when libswscale doesn't build
[13:28:57] <siretart> janneg: yes, please!
[13:29:12] <kshishkov> well, I think we'll get fully LGPLed swscale soon, probably it can be merged into one repo
[13:29:30] <mru> that has nothing to do with it
[13:29:55] <mru> the merge can't happen until ffmpeg switches fully to git
[13:30:08] <mru> _and_ mplayer stops importing bits of ffmpeg as svn externals
[13:30:18] <siretart> then let's finally do that!
[13:30:22] <thresh> mplayer could easily stop doing that, when ffmpeg goes git
[13:30:31] <mru> nothing is easy in mplayer
[13:30:39] <thresh> rm -rf /var/lib/svn/ffmpeg
[13:31:20] <mru> doing a proper merge of the repos requires a fair amount of manual work
[13:31:37] <mru> to tidy up the result of ugly rcs file renames in cvs days
[13:31:55] <mru> it would probably take me a day to do it
[13:32:04] <mru> and I'm only going to do it _once_
[13:32:10] <janneg> I'm volunteering
[13:32:17] <mru> that's not the issue
[13:32:20] <mru> I'll do the work
[13:32:27] <mru> but I'm not going to do it in vain
[13:32:52] <mru> and a merged git-svn repo isn't possible
[13:33:05] <mru> and as I said, it requires cooperation from mplayer
[13:33:12] <mru> or we could just piss them off
[13:33:33] <elenril> mru: by breaking mplayer you'd help uau ;)
[13:34:03] <mru> at this point I don't really care
[13:34:08] <mru> mplayer is doomed regardless
[13:34:35] <elenril> yeah, ffplay will kill it
[13:34:40] <mru> well, no
[13:35:16] <elenril> unless you're trolling i fail to see how mplayer is doomed
[13:35:26] <elenril> looks just fine to me
[13:35:40] <mru> mplayer served a purpose for a while
[13:36:09] <mru> now it's been displaced by vlc as the "default" video player
[13:36:25] <elenril> lolvlc
[13:36:33] <mru> millions use it
[13:36:40] <janneg> mru: we could provide a svn mirror of the git repo like the git mirror of the svn repo know for mplayer
[13:36:49] <mru> janneg: much harder
[13:37:15] <mru> and I have no desire to do that
[13:37:36] <elenril> meh, don't bother with mplayer
[13:37:45] <mru> that what I said
[13:37:50] <elenril> it can just backport the fixes from uau's fork
[13:37:55] <elenril> or write their own
[13:37:55] <mru> we could just piss them off and let them fix their shit
[13:37:59] <mru> which they won't
[13:38:49] <pJok> isn't mplayer only good for testing binary codecs?
[13:39:00] <mru> no idea
[13:39:03] <mru> I don't do that
[13:39:40] <BBB> wbs: josh's patch is probably ok, completely (see my reply and the link therein)
[13:40:47] <pJok> mru, i'd say you shouldn't keep things running just because others use it if its blocking progress in your end...
[13:41:03] <mru> that's only one of many problems
[13:41:22] <mru> and even if I don't really care about mplayer, I'd rather not be flogged by diego for breaking it
[13:41:47] <mru> there's also the issue of diego and michael being pretty much set against git
[13:42:55] <elenril> vote about it?
[13:44:16] * pJok hands mru a plunger and a spanner
[13:45:00] <kshishkov> pJok: MPlayer has a nice default GUI in my opinion
[13:45:05] <thresh> cvlc also
[13:45:35] <pJok> kshishkov, isn't that just a matter of taste?
[13:45:41] * pJok doesn't really like the gui of vlc
[13:45:48] <pJok> but im used to it, so can't really complain
[13:46:12] <janneg> I think it's safe to ignore diego. if he cares deeply about fixing commit messages we could require git format-patch patches for review
[13:46:13] <BBB> mplayer has a gui?
[13:46:27] <thresh> pJok: cvlc has a nice default gui
[13:46:55] <kshishkov> BBB: the lack of gui is the best gui IMO
[13:47:36] <thresh> that's why kshishkov uses telnet to IRC
[13:47:46] <elenril> janneg: or we could have a development and a "stable" branch
[13:48:05] <kshishkov> thresh: ssh + irssi in screen actually but that's all TUI
[13:48:18] <thresh> kshishkov: ты не труъ.
[13:48:39] <kshishkov> thresh: я и не претендую
[13:51:25] <KotH> mru: if i'd be you, i'd rather fear the warth of some japanophile turkish guy living in switzerland... he'd not be very happy if you'd break mplayer
[13:51:35] <KotH> ;)
[13:53:16] <kshishkov> KotH: "wrath" is more fearful than "warth"
[13:54:59] <j-b> ohoh, ogg vs webm on webm-discuss... !summon troll
[13:54:59] <Tjoppen> I read it like "warmth"
[13:55:22] <KotH> j-b: rotfl
[13:55:24] <kshishkov> j-b: do we have webm trolls?
[13:55:36] <janneg> elenril: how does that help with bad commit msg? stable is development with fixed commit msg?
[13:55:37] <KotH> Tjoppen: the warmth of a few thousand suns exploding ;)
[13:56:48] <Tjoppen> hehe
[13:57:30] <BBB> ooooo
[13:57:33] <BBB> j-b: link?
[13:57:48] <janneg> https://groups.google.com/a/webmproject.org/group/webm-discuss/browse_thread/thread/fb9fab7ca84481de#
[13:57:50] <j-b> https://groups.google.com/a/webmproject.org/group/webm-discuss/browse_thread/thread/fb9fab7ca84481de#
[13:57:53] <j-b> rah
[13:58:09] <j-b> sorry for the fail
[13:59:10] <peloverde> Happy Thursday!
[14:00:20] <BBB> peloverde: awesome response :)
[14:00:27] <BBB> but that's no discussion or trollwar
[14:00:34] <BBB> it'll become one, though
[14:00:38] <BBB> but it isn't qualified as one, yet
[14:01:28] <kierank> i was also expecting a flamefest, not some burning embers
[14:05:49] <peloverde> "Suggestions regarding fragmentation and extensions" is a much better troll thread but it is strangely absent from the archives
[14:07:41] <Kovensky> < Kovensky> jfs: also, it could be worse, they could have used ogg as webm's base < Mandarinka> would be .webo? < Mandarinka> .weboshi < PharaohAnubis> Mandarinka those names would rly suit it
[14:07:46] <Kovensky> lulz
[14:08:17] * Kovensky didn't even know about that webm-discuss thread ._.
[14:08:18] <kierank> https://groups.google.com/a/webmproject.org/group/webm-discuss/browse_thread/thread/3c3355541c513dbb#
[14:08:21] * kshishkov reads last extension as .webohshit
[14:08:35] <Kovensky> kshishkov: you're doing it right
[14:08:48] <dezodorant> orly?
[14:09:03] <kierank> lol monty I'm biased and
[14:09:03] <kierank> I do think Ogg would have been a better technical choice for WebM
[14:09:09] <j-b> because it would be called webo ?
[14:09:13] <j-b> LOL
[14:09:29] <mru> I happen to know why they chose matroska
[14:10:35] <Kovensky> it's lulz how people say WAV is PCM audio
[14:10:37] <mru> quoting a google doc: "Ogg has many issues with the format."
[14:10:44] <Kovensky> +uncompressed
[14:11:19] <kshishkov> mru: I think I quote your blog with the same phrase
[14:11:30] <Kovensky> > Are you in favor of dropping support for Ogg on VLC as well? :)
[14:11:30] <Kovensky> You know what? I wish we could.
[14:11:33] <Kovensky> j-b++
[14:12:25] <Kovensky> "I do support Ogg as a WebM container." <-- ...
[14:12:33] <Kovensky> oh well, will read the rest later
[14:12:36] <Kovensky> gotta run :V
[14:22:23] <BBB> j-b: if you ever wondered why ffmpeg developers like you
[14:22:27] <BBB> j-b: now you know ;)
[14:42:45] <Kovensky> https://groups.google.com/a/webmproject.org/group/webm-discuss/msg/8d3c0e901b3c03f7 <-- ... wow
[14:42:55] <Kovensky> why do I still get impressed by the tardness of freetards
[14:43:16] <kierank> i lol'd at that one too
[14:43:42] <Kovensky> the only thing remotely sane he said is FLAC, but that's still unrealistic considering today's broadband quality and coverage
[14:44:37] <mru> putting the t in tard...
[14:47:20] <CIA-93> ffmpeg: alexc * r23350 /trunk/libavcodec/aacenc.c: Mark AAC encoder as experimental.
[14:47:38] <BBB> some parts of the VP8 spec make you wonder what highschool student wrote it
[14:47:43] <BBB> "Otherwise (when the above bool is true), we are using inter-prediction (which of course only happens for interframes), to which we now restrict our attention."
[14:48:03] <mru> lol
[14:48:08] <BBB> that sentence alone is a death sentence in scientific publishing... imaging a book containing that sentence
[14:48:16] <BBB> *iamgine
[14:48:19] <BBB> god damn it :)
[14:48:22] <BBB> *imagine
[14:48:26] <kshishkov> BBB: on the contrary, high school students demonstrated their ability to analyze VP8
[14:48:36] <mru> kshishkov: college
[14:48:46] <BBB> 3rd yr college, even
[14:49:05] <kshishkov> mru: what rank of school is that?
[14:49:20] <mru> after high-school
[14:49:41] <kshishkov> how'd you call KTH then?
[14:49:50] <superdump> don't they leave high school at 18 in the US?
[14:49:51] <mru> university
[14:50:02] <BBB> superdump: yes
[14:51:10] <CIA-93> ffmpeg: alexc * r23351 /trunk/libavcodec/aac.c:
[14:51:10] <CIA-93> ffmpeg: aacdec: Clarify a channel mapping comment.
[14:51:10] <CIA-93> ffmpeg: Patch by Cyril Russo >stage nexvision laposte net<
[14:51:23] * kshishkov is always confused about foreign education system. His was simple as a brick and as effective as a brick
[14:52:00] <peloverde> The ogg trolls have finally woken up...
[14:52:10] <peloverde> "I hope the reason is not because it has better DRM support..."
[14:52:14] <mru> ready the flamethrowers
[14:52:49] <kshishkov> maybe they really didn't want to turn VP8 into Theora 2
[14:53:19] <peloverde> It can't be, libtheora is GPL compatible ;)
[14:54:41] <BBB> awesome, freetard flamewar
[14:54:46] <BBB> this is like a bitchfight, but better
[14:57:05] <siretart> how is mental masturbation better than a bitchfight?
[14:57:46] <_av500_> peloverde: url?
[14:57:59] <janneg> https://groups.google.com/a/webmproject.org/group/webm-discuss/browse_thread/thread/fb9fab7ca84481de#
[14:58:47] <kshishkov> siretart: by cutting out intermediate step
[14:59:55] <BBB> Yuvi: is golden2 altref?
[15:00:24] <Yuvi> BBB: sure, feel free to rename it (just copied it from vp56)
[15:00:47] <BBB> it's fine, for now
[15:01:17] <BBB> so now how do I commit? if it's easier/safer I can email to you also
[15:01:26] <BBB> s/commit/push/
[15:01:31] * kshishkov predicts "silver frame" in VP9 used as not-for-display reference P-frame and "dirt frame" i.e. no-displayed B-frame (just to eat bits) in VP12
[15:01:38] <Yuvi> git push should work now
[15:02:29] <BBB>   You can't push to git://github.com/yuvi/ffmpeg.git
[15:02:29] <BBB>   Use git at github.com:yuvi/ffmpeg.git
[15:03:07] <Yuvi> oh, guess you cloned the read-only url, try replacing that in .git/config
[15:03:44] <BBB>        url = git://github.com/yuvi/ffmpeg.git?
[15:03:49] <Yuvi> yeah
[15:03:56] <BBB> I replace that with... rbultje at github.com/yuvi/ffmpeg.git?
[15:04:11] <BBB> or git://rbultje@..?
[15:04:21] <Yuvi> git at github.com:yuvi/ffmpeg.git I guess
[15:04:57] <Yuvi> whatever's on http://github.com/yuvi/ffmpeg/ for the ssh url for you
[15:05:35] <peloverde> Google suggests using altref for a fixed background to do MPEG-4 style composition
[15:06:24] <BBB> git gui is nice
[15:06:56] <BBB>  ! [rejected]        vp8 -> vp8 (non-fast forward)
[15:07:24] <Yuvi> try git pull origin/vp8 --rebase first then
[15:08:25] <Yuvi> or git pull --rebase origin vp8 even
[15:08:47] <BBB> origin/vp8
[15:09:13] <BBB> refusing to pull with rebase: your working tree is not up-to-date
[15:09:43] <BBB> does that mean I have local commits pending? (I do)
[15:09:47] <Yuvi> yeah
[15:09:55] <BBB> I don't want to commit it yet
[15:09:58] <Yuvi> git stash  git stash apply
[15:10:03] <Yuvi> around the git pull
[15:11:04] <BBB> right
[15:11:29] <BBB> did it work?
[15:11:35] <BBB> I tried to push something
[15:11:41] <Yuvi> http://github.com/yuvi/ffmpeg/commit/f36a144aee6642cbc47d5621e24a24825d2a29aa yep
[15:12:45] <BBB> \o/
[15:12:56] <BBB> ok, now I should actually write some code
[15:14:04] <peloverde> once you git used to git your vc headaches to code writing ratio will approach zero
[15:14:38] <peloverde> And I hear git 2 will just look at the spec and write the code itself ;)
[15:15:07] <BBB> then the code will be very buggy for vp8
[15:15:47] <peloverde> I didn't even bother to send my list of PS spec/software issues to MPEG :(
[15:16:05] <BBB> I would imagine you have enough on your mind already
[15:23:33] <lu_zero> BBB: =)
[15:24:51] <BBB> ooo, GitX is nice alos
[15:26:23] <lu_zero> uhmm
[15:26:42] <lu_zero> who is going to chip in that thread and just say "because ogg sucks" ?
[15:27:42] <_av500_> i would ride the drm wave a bit 1st
[15:27:59] <kshishkov> that would be throwing a pack of yeast into cesspool on hot day
[15:34:22] <lu_zero> today I felt bored =P
[15:35:14] <lu_zero> BBB: the spec vp8 is really nice as a code walkthrough and I'm afraid that's what was when it started
[15:36:07] <_av500_> lu_zero: \o/
[15:37:27] <BBB> lu_zero: that's exactly what it is, yeah
[15:37:57] <peloverde> What's the license on the spec?
[15:38:44] <BBB> it's a spec
[15:38:54] <Yuvi> still has a license: http://www.webmproject.org/license/bitstream/
[15:39:02] <BBB> that's the patent license
[15:39:11] <BBB> the code fragments are whatever you want
[15:39:14] <BBB> which is funny
[15:39:21] <BBB> because the same code in the reference decoder is BSD
[15:39:29] <lu_zero> btw that mailinglist is a trollnest
[15:39:30] <BBB> the patent licenses are also different
[15:40:35] <lu_zero> I wonder how the google devs could be as gentle while they have such idiots complaining about ie6 support in the website or claiming that they are forking everything when they provided patch...
[15:41:32] * peloverde still can't believe that he defended the vp8 launch
[15:41:42] <Yuvi> would be nice if they fixed the css, web pages that do http://i.imgur.com/IiN2Q.png are annoying
[15:42:23] <BBB> peloverde: so now... really
[15:42:28] <BBB> peloverde: are you paid by google? :-p
[15:42:36] <BBB> you are VERY present on everything-google
[15:42:48] <BBB> I remember you being on all chrom{e,ium} MLs also
[15:43:11] <BBB> either that or you are a googl3>r
[15:43:37] <mru> a gootard...
[15:43:39] <peloverde> It's more that i dislike mozilla
[15:44:01] <lu_zero> theehhe
[15:44:24] <merbzt> I like that they send me a new tshirt every year
[15:44:40] <merbzt> 2 last year
[15:44:43] <lu_zero> mru: how's going?
[15:46:15] <BBB> I don't dislike mozilla
[15:46:35] <BBB> but mozilla is a typical free software project gone wrong, where vocal minorities rule the public opinion (or perceived opinion) of the project
[15:46:50] <lu_zero> so what's the solution?
[15:46:59] <_av500_> shotgun?
[15:46:59] <BBB> go corporate, shut them up or fire them
[15:47:08] <BBB> shotgun also works, but leaves trails
[15:47:15] * lu_zero considers webkit nicer right now
[15:48:05] <lu_zero> right now I wonder if wildfox will really develop
[15:48:23] <lu_zero> and if they will really integrate lav* into it
[15:48:27] <peloverde> I used to be very pro Mozilla, it was the first free software project I did anything with
[15:48:35] <BBB> weren't they discussing which "media framework" to use?
[15:48:37] * lu_zero as well
[15:48:53] <BBB> if you can't even get that question sorted out before launch, well, then you're a typical free software project going nowhere ;)
[15:49:02] <peloverde> But I always felt like I was relegated to a second class in regard to access not being a netscape employee
[15:49:16] <lu_zero> BBB: they have two options: gst to use native codecs or ffmpeg and ignore the rest
[15:49:31] <BBB> what's a native codec?
[15:49:45] <lu_zero> BBB: system ones
[15:49:50] <BBB> what's a system one?
[15:50:05] <BBB> is gst-plugins-base a system one?
[15:50:18] <BBB> or do you mean "directshow for win32 or quicktime for mac"?
[15:50:41] <lu_zero> the dshow and quicktime
[15:51:01] <BBB> don't forget gst is trying to position itself as "native for linux/unix/..."
[15:51:13] <BBB> which is kind of silly since it doesn't provide any codecs by itself
[15:51:21] <peloverde> The mozilla trademark policy is what really pushed me over the edge
[15:51:44] <peloverde> that and their claim of multi-process architecture being unfeasible until chrome did it
[15:51:44] <lu_zero> eh
[15:52:30] <lu_zero> they always said that multi-process would take a long time since they'd need to cleanup too much
[15:52:39] <lu_zero> so wasn't lying
[15:53:07] * lu_zero would be happier if they refactored a bit more
[15:55:26] <peloverde> I don't want excuses I want a browser that works, and it's interesting how many former high profile Mozilla people jumped ship to WebKit based browsers
[15:58:37] * mru shoots gst
[15:59:42] <lu_zero> gst improved a lot over time but has an hype aura similar to the xiph one...
[16:03:18] <hyc> the mozilla code has been unmaintainable for probably 80% of its existence
[16:03:32] <hyc> jumping ship to webkit is a no-brainer
[16:03:53] <mru> 80% of its existance, starting from the beginning
[16:03:57] <mru> not when it was opened
[16:04:28] * mru remembers the dec compiler on tru64 having a special "netscape mode"
[16:04:34] <hyc> probably. when you see stuff in their bugzilla from 1999, marked as critical/next release, still unfixed, you know theyv'e got problems
[16:04:48] <mru> basically using 32-bit pointers and forcing it to low address space
[16:05:01] <peloverde> but the NGLayout (Gecko(TM)) rewrite was unmaintainable
[16:05:11] <mru> hyc: better than gcc
[16:05:18] <mru> gcc down-mark bugs they don't like
[16:05:40] <mru> 'cause you can't have critical bugs open for too long
[16:06:40] <peloverde> what about lowering bug priority so they can do a release with zero P1s?
[16:06:54] <mru> that's what I'm talking about
[16:08:43] <peloverde> Mozilla also created this ridiculous XPCOM interface only to rip it out a few years later https://wiki.mozilla.org/Gecko:DeCOMtamination
[16:08:52] <hyc> even better is reading the history and seeing a bug get assigned to one engineer, sitting for a couple years, and having to be assigned to another 'cause the first guy left the project without ever working on the issue
[16:08:52] <peloverde> kind of reminds me of bonobo
[16:09:25] <hyc> and of course, most of that was happening while it was still a commercial effort
[16:09:32] <BBB> bonobo :D
[16:09:34] <mru> that was a mad time in general
[16:09:42] <mru> corba... eeew
[16:09:47] <BBB> typical case of overoveroverengineering
[16:09:54] <BBB> nobody, even its inventors, wanted to work with it
[16:10:19] <BBB> evolution is the only app using it, and it's so complex and incomprehensible that it took a good 5 years to de-bono'ify it after bonobo was deprecated
[16:10:32] <BBB> of course nobody wants to hack on evolution either ;)
[16:17:04] <BBB> again lol @ vp8 reference: "Much of the process is more easily described in C than in English."
[16:17:16] <BBB> (and then it c/p's a whole .c file as "documentation")
[16:18:27] <hyc> well, a lot of specs illustrate using pseudo-code. mebbe they decided that's too imprecise.
[16:18:44] <hyc> still, it's bad form to make an "illustration" a normative part of a spec.
[16:19:10] <Yuvi> for dequant, they paste the two tables and say that they're modified somehow, go look at quant_common.c
[16:19:38] <Yuvi> that's just lazy
[16:50:50] <Kovensky> <@Yuvi> git stash  git stash apply <-- don't use apply, use pop (unless you want to still keep the changes stashed even after the apply)
[17:11:36] <lu_zero> mru: did you find a sane hotel?
[17:12:28] <CIA-93> ffmpeg: michael * r23352 /trunk/libavformat/utils.c:
[17:12:28] <CIA-93> ffmpeg: Make sure that when the parser is feeded with frame==packet that the
[17:12:28] <CIA-93> ffmpeg: packets are passed through and wont be marked as static which would
[17:12:28] <CIA-93> ffmpeg: require them to be copied by av_dup_packet().
[17:12:57] <mru> I managed to book a room in "Ivbergs Charlottenburg" through hrs.de
[17:13:07] <mru> the hotel's own website said it was full
[17:22:14] <lu_zero> now even hrs.de says that's full
[17:22:46] <mru> is there something else going on besides linuxtag?
[17:22:54] <mru> it's not usually this hard to find hotels
[17:26:03] <lu_zero> no clue
[17:31:15] <janneg> yes, ILA. berlin air show
[17:31:53] <lu_zero> uh?
[17:33:01] <osaft> ther is also the DMY Design Festival at this time
[17:33:06] <osaft> there*
[17:35:51] <janneg> http://www.ila-berlin.com
[17:36:10] <janneg> internationale Luftfahrt Austellung
[17:36:32] <peloverde> Reddit: The blind leading the stupid? http://i.imgur.com/LEcme.png
[17:36:46] <mru> janneg: linuxtag overlapped with that a couple of years ago
[17:36:57] <mru> the hotel situation now is awful
[17:37:59] <mru> peloverde: lol
[17:38:00] <janneg> I think the first one berlin did
[17:38:11] <janneg> +in
[17:52:09] <Kovensky> you guys should all just drop linuxtag and go to the air show
[17:52:12] <Kovensky> planes > linux
[17:52:27] <kierank> true
[17:53:41] <BBB> oil > planes
[17:56:23] <jai> girls > oil?
[17:56:42] <mru> girls+oil
[17:56:44] * mru runs
[17:57:25] <lu_zero> obviosuly > *
[17:58:47] <jai> lol
[18:45:16] <peloverde> sigh, the AAC channel model rears its ugly head again
[18:46:57] <peloverde> and roundup is down so I can't even see the original bug report
[18:49:08] <ohsix> isn't getting that back up a priority? heh
[18:49:38] <ohsix> does roundup cc bugmail to somewhere you can search?
[18:50:49] * Kovensky wonders how to do cheap struct RTTI in C
[18:55:04] <peloverde> It boggles my mind how menno thought an instance tag didn't need to be unique
[18:56:01] <ohsix> menno?
[18:57:00] <Kovensky> ohsix: faad / faac's author, nero employee
[18:58:21] * kshishkov may meet Menno some day
[19:00:00] <kshishkov> and mru has seen Ivan Dimkovic, another AAC encoder creator who worked at Nero
[19:02:19] <peloverde> Ivan Dimkovic wrote some worthwhile papers
[19:02:49] <kshishkov> yes, that's what I remember about him
[19:03:38] <peloverde> several of my ffaacenc improvements were taken from "IMPROVED ISO AAC CODER" and his IEEE(?) paper
[20:41:01] <CIA-93> ffmpeg: siretart * r23353 /branches/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
[20:41:01] <CIA-93> ffmpeg: change author metadata to artist in mov de/muxer
[20:41:01] <CIA-93> ffmpeg: backport r23266 by bcoudurier
[20:47:55] <CIA-93> ffmpeg: siretart * r23354 /branches/ (0.6/libavformat/movenc.c 0.6):
[20:47:55] <CIA-93> ffmpeg: write 3gp perf tag for artist metadata
[20:47:55] <CIA-93> ffmpeg: backport r23268 by bcoudurier
[20:48:38] <CIA-93> ffmpeg: siretart * r23355 /branches/ (0.6/libavformat/aea.c 0.6):
[20:48:39] <CIA-93> ffmpeg: Fix detection of some stereo atrac files by not comparing the
[20:48:39] <CIA-93> ffmpeg: block size mode and info byte.
[20:48:39] <CIA-93> ffmpeg: backport r23272 by banan
[20:48:39] <CIA-93> ffmpeg: siretart * r23356 /branches/ (0.6/libavformat/aea.c 0.6):
[20:48:39] <CIA-93> ffmpeg: Reduce the score for the aea demuxer probing function.
[20:48:40] <CIA-93> ffmpeg: backport r23273 by banan
[21:10:53] <peloverde> Anyone ever used SceneScope?
[21:22:29] <DonDiego> *sigh*
[21:22:41] <DonDiego> mru: how is your dsputil splitup coming along?
[21:22:44] <bcoudurier> is it usual to have H.264 using full range yuv ?
[21:23:00] <_av500_> peloverde: no, but give me a copy if you have one :)
[21:23:12] <Dark_Shikari> bcoudurier: it happens
[21:23:12] <DonDiego> on highly parallel builds dsputil.c and motion_est.c take longer to build than ALL THE REST of libavcodec..
[21:23:20] <mru> DonDiego: haven't done anything on that lately
[21:23:21] <_av500_> DonDiego: yup
[21:23:41] <mru> but I'll get back on it
[21:23:48] <DonDiego> great
[21:23:55] <CIA-93> ffmpeg: conrad * r23357 /trunk/ (6 files in 3 dirs): On2 IVF demuxer
[21:24:05] <mru> right now I need to concentrate on paid work
[21:24:09] <_av500_> i used to hack up dsputil severly in the past to get a small build
[21:24:09] <bcoudurier> ah
[21:24:16] <bcoudurier> and how is it handled ?
[21:25:13] <DonDiego> _av500_: submit :)
[21:26:01] <_av500_> DonDiego: what part of "hackep up" did you not understand? ;)
[21:26:06] <_av500_> hacked
[21:26:28] <DonDiego> :)
[21:30:05] <peloverde> sigh, scenescope like most of it's peers it spits out a few fields from the headers and bufffer/bitrate info only
[21:40:49] <peloverde> At some point I should just finish these AAC analysis tools I'm making and sell them :)
[21:41:05] <Dark_Shikari> what do you need checked?
[21:41:08] <Dark_Shikari> I have an analzyer that says it does aac
[21:41:35] <peloverde> I need something that visualizes windowing and scalefactors
[21:41:51] <Dark_Shikari> It might.  This is a ridiculously good program
[21:41:58] <Dark_Shikari> it does the equivalent for h264
[21:42:05] <Dark_Shikari> well, ridiculously good except for all the bugs and slowness
[21:42:16] <Dark_Shikari> but what can you expect from a rebranded analyzer that pirates coreaac
[21:42:16] <peloverde> Pretty much everything I've found so far prints out the headers and does buffering analysis
[21:42:33] <Dark_Shikari> lemme see here.
[21:43:00] <peloverde> So I've slowly been gluing the reference decoder to pylab
[21:44:09] <Dark_Shikari> wow, it does indeed do nothing at all.
[21:44:11] <Dark_Shikari> that's useless
[21:44:23] <Dark_Shikari> It's really weird, why do all the video tools have so many features, but their audio parts have none?
[21:44:53] <peloverde> i've been wondering the same thing
[21:53:16] <bcoudurier> Dark_Shikari, interesting, what tool is it ?
[21:53:37] <Dark_Shikari> cma1820
[22:13:40] <bcoudurier> looks nice
[22:18:45] <spaam> so in .pl they play this game at school  http://www.thenews.pl/national/artykul132388_game-in-secondary-school-gets-five-pregnant.html
[22:19:05] <mru> spaam: keep that stuff in #the-alliance
[22:20:04] <spaam> ok :)
[22:22:02] <lu_zero> ...
[22:24:19] <mru> others: don't go there, it is a silly place
[23:54:40] <DonDiego> gnite