[Ffmpeg-devel-irc] ffmpeg-devel.log.20111230

[burek]

[00:03] <funman> i have switched vlc build system to build from Libav by default instead of FFmpeg
[00:04] <funman> both should work (right know only FFmpeg works because the configure options conflict) though
[00:04] <funman> michaelni: ^
[00:05] <Daemon404> O.o
[00:05] <Daemon404> which options conflict?
[00:06] <funman> ff/av(server,play,probe)
[00:07] <Daemon404> what has that got to do with configure options?
[00:07] <Daemon404> enable/disable them?
[00:07] <funman> yep
[00:09] <Daemon404> lolic
[00:15] <kierank> michaelni: are you going to fosdem?
[00:23] <cbsrobot> Tjoppen: any news on the mxf error introduced with the index based seeking ?
[00:24] <cbsrobot> Tjoppen: [mxf @ 0x10204ba00] failed to find absolute offset of 1ef94 in BodySID 1 - partial file?
[00:30] <michaelni> funman, why did you switch to libav ?
[00:31] <funman> there are more people on irc channel if/when we have bugs
[00:32] <michaelni> thats a very odd awnser
[00:32] <funman> i needed a reason to choose because to me both projects are useful/helpful
[00:32] <ubitux> 00:32:21 ::: Irssi: #libav-devel: Total of 89 nicks [12 ops, 0 halfops, 14 voices, 63 normal]
[00:32] <ubitux> 00:32:06 ::: Irssi: #ffmpeg-devel: Total of 94 nicks [9 ops, 0 halfops, 6 voices, 79 normal]
[00:32] <ubitux> :°
[00:32] <funman> more active people id' say hthen
[00:32] <michaelni> huh?
[00:32] <ubitux> :)
[00:32] <michaelni> look at the bug tracker
[00:33] <michaelni> libav fixes nothing
[00:33] <michaelni> we fixed hundreads of bugs
[00:33] <funman> works for me
[00:33] <michaelni> if you have a bug in ffmpeg, report it ill fix it
[00:33] <funman> though i expect other vlc devs will react to my commit (especially fenrir)
[00:34] <funman> yes i noticed you were fast to react
[00:34] <funman> my commit was not some definite choice, more something to fuel a discussion
[00:38] <funman> also thanks to that i get thankful libav devs to work for free on a merge between the 2 ends of the fork
[00:39] <michaelni> i dont think i understand that sentance
[00:40] <funman> 18:00 < funman> BBB_work: my biggest annoyance is that there is 2 competing and conflicting projects
[00:40] <michaelni> i doubt libav will merge much, they havnt in the past but it would be great if they do
[00:41] <funman> i mean the 2 merge in 1, not each side merge from the other
[00:42] <michaelni> you mean reunification of the projects into one ?
[00:43] <funman> yeah
[00:43] <kierank> that is not something that can be done without face to face discussion
[00:43] <kierank> realistically
[00:43] <funman> and fist-fight^Wdiplomacy
[00:44] <kierank> nah, ffmpeg/libav discussion at vdd was quite good
[00:44] <michaelni> iam 100% for reunification but i dont get what the default switch in vlc has to do with it
[00:44] <funman> bbb told me he'd fix bugs for me because of the switch i made
[00:45] <michaelni> funman, i fix twice as much if you switch back
[00:46] <michaelni> just mail me a list of what you want fixed
[00:47] <funman> michaelni: bug report: there are 2 projects doing the same thing, make that one
[00:49] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: 03Carl Eugen Hoyos 07master * r3a15051aba 10ffmpeg/libavcodec/bmp.c: Always assume the bmp palette as being opaque.
[00:49] <michaelni> I want but for thats not so easy when the other side doesnt want
[00:49] <funman> true
[00:50] <michaelni> also BBB cant "fix" that any more than i can
[00:50] <funman> were you invited to VDD this september? i dont remember
[00:50] <michaelni> i was invited
[00:50] <michaelni> i dont like travelling and i dont like personal meetings, its not exactly my "thing"
[00:51] <michaelni> even less so in a hostile environment
[00:51] <kierank> it will not be a hostile environment
[00:51] <kierank> it was VERY cordial at vdd
[00:51] <funman> you call vlc devs hostile ? :/
[00:51] <kierank> you have to trust me on that
[00:51] <kierank> but everyone will agree
[00:51] <funman> ask stefano i think it was cool for everybody
[00:51] <michaelni> not vlc, but a small number of libav developers id call hostile
[00:52] <kierank> they were not hostile in real life
[00:52] <kierank> one or two were not happy at the beginning but it got a lot better
[00:52] <kierank> and i don't see why it couldn't at fosdem
[00:52] <funman> yes they got in a room together and discussed some stuff
[00:53] <funman> we trolled tehem but not too much
[00:53] <kierank> nah there was not much trolling
[00:53] <funman> i mean we stopped before it gets non funny
[00:53] <kierank> i know it must sound ridiculous after all the arguing on irc and the mailing list
[00:53] <kierank> but it was very cordial
[00:58] <funman> yes we just did what we all liked
[00:58] <funman> aka hate apple and xiph
[00:58] <kierank> and dolby =p
[01:00] <michaelni> i did find the xiph jokes funny long ago but nowadays i dont find attacking individuals or groups funny anymore.
[01:00] <michaelni> its a rather primitive form of "fun" IMHO
[01:00] <kierank> then we won't do that
[01:01] <michaelni> iam not so sensitive ;)
[01:01] <kierank> the point was that there are organisations which are so opposite to open source, free software, whatever...which make the gulf between libav and ffmpeg look tiny
[01:01] <kierank> and once the differences are resolved we can all work on big challenges
[01:02] <michaelni> we need to get rid of the difference between the 2 trees
[01:02] <michaelni> most of it at least
[01:02] <michaelni> i still need to write BBB a mail about exactly that and swscale
[01:02] <funman> yeah that's a good start
[01:02] <ubitux> libav is about 1yr late of ffmpeg specific commits&
[01:03] <ubitux> how do you think this could be solved easily?
[01:03] <michaelni> why is BBB not here ?
[01:03] <kierank> why is that relevant
[01:03] <ubitux> i don't feel like rebasing, submitting, and trying to get approval on the hundreds of my own commits
[01:04] <ubitux> and of course, i'm far from the most active developer
[01:04] <kierank> ubitux: i forget if you were there but this was discussed
[01:04] <kierank> it is almost certainly the worst consqeuence of the split
[01:04] <ubitux> you mean at vdd?
[01:05] <ubitux> i was just lurking a few hours
[01:05] <ubitux> i didn't stay long
[01:05] <ubitux> just had a talk with a few ppl
[01:05] <kierank> i would have said hello
[01:05] <kierank> but couldn't match nick->face
[01:05] <kierank> then someone said you were around
[01:05] <ubitux> i stayed sth like 1h each day
[01:06] <ubitux> i'm like a rare pokemon
[01:06] <j-b> catch 'me all
[01:06] <ubitux> ;)
[01:06] <kierank> it would have been interesting to see you in the broadcast session
[01:06] <kierank> we talked quite a bit
[01:06] <ubitux> i don't believe in the efficiency of real life talks, and i don't like them
[01:07] <michaelni> same here
[01:07] <ffmpeguser> i'll catch you :P
[01:07] <ubitux> i came for the talks, and just do some nick/face matching
[01:07] <funman> 2 days per year is not really hard esp. if you stay 1 hour
[01:07] <kierank> it is a shame to hear you both say that
[01:07] <michaelni> if there is will to reunify it can be done with just morse codes
[01:07] <funman> but who will lay down the wires?
[01:07] <kierank> this actual thing was discussed in the ffmpeg/libav meeting
[01:08] <kierank> "technical solution to a social problem"
[01:08] <j-b> kill 'em all and create a 3rd fork
[01:09] <ubitux> ffmux
[01:09] <relaxed> avmpeg
[01:09] <ubitux> i prefer ffmux, it matches my name more
[01:09] <ubitux> s/name/nick/
[01:09] <ubitux> anyway, what improves after vdd?
[01:10] <ubitux> (from a coop perspective)
[01:10] <kierank> things don't suddenly solve themselves
[01:10] <kierank> but there are promises to work better
[01:10] <kierank> some of which have become real
[01:10] <ubitux> i had some talks with libav people on irc (after vdd, recently), nothing seems really better in that way
[01:11] <kierank> the big issues will not solve themselves
[01:11] <j-b> the biggest issue is that there is no charismatic leader.
[01:11] <ubitux> they seem reluctant to compatibility between forks, reluctant to reviews of ffmpeg developers, and reluctant to any commit with Michael N. as author...
[01:12] <ubitux> i don't know what will change if we talk face to face
[01:12] <kierank> it is much less hostile
[01:12] <j-b> and, what about actually try to talk?
[01:12] <j-b> it doesn't cost much
[01:12] <ubitux> i'm not so sure of that
[01:12] <ubitux> j-b: it costs time&
[01:13] <funman> come for 2 or 3 days
[01:13] <funman> 0.5% of a year
[01:14] <funman> and you can still use your time to do whatever you like (code, etc)
[01:14] <ubitux> i think 2hours was exactly the amount of time i'd enjoy to take for the meeting
[01:14] <funman> or tourism, well
[01:14] <ubitux> 2-3 days, are you serious? ;)
[01:14] <funman> 2 hours each day then? anyway it's your choice
[01:14] <michaelni> 2-3 days on such a meeting is pure torture for me
[01:15] <funman> still better than 0
[01:15] <ubitux> you can't work in those conditions funman 
[01:15] <ffmpeguser> ubitux: many things can change, you can see and hear each other, it's not text communication
[01:15] <funman> come 1 hour the first day and 1 hour the second
[01:15] <ubitux> i tried, it doesn't work
[01:15] <michaelni> i mean i dont like parties even when i know and like the people
[01:15] <ubitux> ffmpeguser: i really prefer text communication
[01:15] <funman> michaelni: me too
[01:16] <funman> well i like it for a while but when i don't enjoy it anymore i just leave
[01:16] <ffmpeguser> you are used to it and you are comfortable with it, but face to face talks can improve a situation most of the times
[01:16] <ubitux> i don't like meetings just for meetings
[01:16] <ubitux> it's totally meaningless
[01:16] <ubitux> the only thing it is useful is for negociation
[01:17] <ubitux> and negociation is not easy in real-life
[01:17] <ubitux> especially with trained speakers ;)
[01:17] <ffmpeguser> you'll meet to influence people
[01:17] <ubitux> and btw, 3 days of negocation is a nightmare
[01:17] <iive> ffmpeguser: don't fool yourself.
[01:18] <ffmpeguser> how am i fooling myself?
[01:18] <iive> talking face to face is much worse than written communication.
[01:18] <ubitux> at least for useful conversations :)
[01:19] <ubitux> jokes might be funnier in real life
[01:19] <michaelni> also meetings in a language that one isnt a native speaker of are not ideal, not to mention possible misunderstandings
[01:19] <iive> you miss a lot of the info you are presented, you have no way of checking the facts that are presented
[01:19] <ffmpeguser> when things become emotional face to face is a lot better
[01:19] <iive> and for some people, they don't have the time to think for a proper answer.
[01:19] <ffmpeguser> i'm sure that all of you have laptops, you can check everything on the spot together
[01:19] <ubitux> and no trace
[01:20] <ffmpeguser> you can always record audio and video
[01:20] <funman> michaelni: true it's difficult but it's the same for everybody i guess
[01:20] <iive> also people try to avoid confrontation when talking face to face, thus they may not defend their positions as well as they could.
[01:20] <ubitux> yes, or we can just use ascii text because it works and do the job
[01:20] <ubitux> text communication -> almost everyone at the same level
[01:21] <iive> and let's not forget that there are at least 2 masterful manipulators in the libav team.
[01:21] <iive> that I blame for the whole mess.
[01:21] <ubitux> real life -> loud voices, native speakers, etc have the advantage
[01:21] <iive> as long as these people are still there, nothing could be really done.
[01:21] <ffmpeguser> in that case yes, it would be better to use text to communicate, but if their oral english is good, face to face is the best
[01:21] <ubitux> prove it
[01:22] <ubitux> it might be the best when people agreed
[01:22] <ubitux> (aka libav ppl trying to get some stuff done together in real life)
[01:22] <ubitux> but not for negociation
[01:22] <ffmpeguser> be a good listener, let them say whatever they have to say and discuss the things that you disagree with
[01:23] <iive> it's not like we have issues with them, it is them that have issues with us.
[01:23] <iive> or specifically anything that is linked to michael.
[01:23] <funman> iive: who is the other one?
[01:23] <ubitux> the only benefit i see for ffmpeg by going there is to show some kind of compromise start ("hey we agree to come, see?")
[01:23] <ubitux> but that's all
[01:23] <ffmpeguser> if they are not willing to hear you face to face, why would they 'hear' you with text?
[01:24] <funman> i was wondering if mru goes to fosdem
[01:24] <ffmpeguser> what is the problem they have with michael?
[01:24] <ubitux> he is the ffmpeg leader
[01:24] <funman> ffmpeguser: read ffmpeg-devel list from before the split to get an idea
[01:25] <iive> that's good question.
[01:25] <ffmpeguser> let me run a search to find the relevant posts
[01:25] <ubitux> anyway, enough for me
[01:26] <ubitux> let's do sth that can't be done easily in real life: ignore and leave without saying a word at anytime
[01:26] <funman> bah
[01:26] <ffmpeguser> 2011 Split  Due to political reasons that first surfaced in the beginning of 2011, the FFmpeg project has now split into two independent forks: FFmpeg and Libav.
[01:26] <ubitux> (ok, i actually do it in real life)
[01:26] <funman> i can do that in real life, you just need training :)
[01:26] <funman> :P
[01:26] <ubitux> no training necessary
[01:26] <ffmpeguser> yes, but it could lead to voilence
[01:26] <ffmpeguser> violence*
[01:27] <ubitux> you just have to take the most autistic attitude you can so no one will ever try to stop you
[01:28] <ffmpeguser>  The main reason for forking was Michael himself. On various occasions his quite strict rules on code quality and reviews doesn't seem to apply to him, while important developments, such as ffmpeg-mt, have been stalled basically for years. Indeed, Michael even stated a few days before the fork on IRC 'ill never merge -mt'.
[01:28] <iive> that's a lie. 
[01:28] <ffmpeguser> michael must speak
[01:29] <ubitux> i think ppl have explained themselves more than enough
[01:29] <ubitux> just read the mail, it wasn't real life talks
[01:29] <ffmpeguser> Reinhard Tartler wrote that
[01:29] <iive> michael was reviewing the -mt when the takeover happened.
[01:29] <iive> it's on the maillist.
[01:29] <ubitux> everything is on the mailing list
[01:29] <ffmpeguser> then what is the problem exactly? the delay?
[01:30] <ffmpeguser> ok, i'll go check
[01:30] <ubitux> the problem is just personnal matters, policy disagreement, and various circumstances
[01:30] <ubitux> the thing is, even now, they seem to still hate michael
[01:30] <ubitux> ask them why, they are better placed than us
[01:31] <ffmpeguser> are they in the channel?
[01:31] <ubitux> you will certainly here something like "he is stealing our code/users and tries to fuck up libav"
[01:31] <ubitux> no but you can go to their own :p
[01:31] <ffmpeguser> hm :P
[01:32] <ubitux> all you need to know is that libav dev just can't stand michael (justified or not is up to you, just read the mails, it's the only way to have something objective), and that's the reason of the fork and current situation
[01:32] <funman> ffmpeguser: #libav-devel / #libav
[01:33] <ubitux> also, there are some secondary technical issues about how to drive the project
[01:33] <ffmpeguser> i'm going through the posts to find the ones about the split to read them
[01:34] <iive> ffmpeguser: if you have threads on your mail client, try the threads with over 100 mails. from jan 18 to the end or march.
[01:34] <ffmpeguser> i'm going through everything manually and with the search thing
[01:35] <michaelni> ffmpeguser, the "not merging mt" was a IRC joke related to russian chocolate 
[01:35] <ffmpeguser> in firefox
[01:35] <kierank> stop quoting things out of context
[01:35] <kierank> these days are over
[01:35] <ffmpeguser> ok, in that case it won't be taken under consideration
[01:35] <kierank> it is far too late for a discussion like this and as I have said many times it is better face to face
[01:36] <ffmpeguser> it wasn't out of context, it is a statement and i wanted to know if it is true, now i kow that it isn't
[01:36] <kierank> things have been done wrong on both sides and at vdd there was acknowledgement of that
[01:36] <ffmpeguser> i see
[01:37] <ffmpeguser> give me some time to read
[01:43] <Daemon404> woah activity
[01:43] Action: Daemon404 is too lazy to read backlog
[01:44] <JEEBsv> Daemon404: nothing of really worth reading
[01:44] <Daemon404> o ok
[01:44] Action: Daemon404 writes more reviews
[01:46] <ffmpeguser> hm
[01:47] <relaxed> It's worth reading if you want to know why ffmpeg will end up like mplayer. 
[01:47] <ffmpeguser> i saw libav has its own website with news since 2007 and there have been talks about renaming it in 2011, the situation is very messy
[01:48] <Daemon404> oh. fork talk again.
[01:48] Action: Daemon404 puts in ear plugs
[01:50] <funman> btw no australian complaints for the new logo ?
[01:50] <Daemon404> wheres teh new logo?
[01:50] <iive> relaxed: i'd like to hear your theory.
[01:51] <funman> iive: http://ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2011-August/113899.html
[01:51] <funman> Daemon404: top of front page
[01:51] <Daemon404> the winter one?
[01:51] <Daemon404> why would anyoen complain?
[01:52] <ffmpeguser> don't  worry Daemon404, the objective is to solve the problems, not to worsen them and/or to create new ones | relaxed i don't know about the mplayer situation, but since you're still talking with them, both groups becoming one team again should not be impossible
[01:52] <ffmpeguser> you all (or at least some of you) still*
[01:56] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: 03Michael Niedermayer 07master * rb9e0e9537a 10ffmpeg/libavformat/nsvdec.c: 
[01:56] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: nsvdec: Check av_malloc(string_size)
[01:56] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: This can easily be NULL as string_size can be 2g in a damaged file.
[01:56] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: Signed-off-by: Michael Niedermayer <michaelni at gmx.at>
[02:00] <ffmpeguser> the summary and the linked webpages sum up pretty much everything on the ffmpeg index page
[02:01] <funman> Daemon404: because there's no snow in south hemisphere
[02:06] <Daemon404> lol
[02:06] <Daemon404> i guess
[02:07] <funman> well on habited lands at least
[02:08] <ffmpeguser> many feel that they weren't treated fairly
[02:16] <ffmpeguser> i'll join their channels now to watch them for a while
[02:21] <ffmpeguser> what about this attila kinali? was he there with the other people you met?
[02:21] <kierank> why are you doing this
[02:21] <kierank> is it really necessary
[02:35] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: 03Carl Eugen Hoyos 07master * r6ed3565f08 10ffmpeg/libavcodec/v410dec.c: 
[02:35] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: Do not fail when decoding invalid v410 files with odd width.
[02:35] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: Reviewed-by; Derek Buitenhuis
[02:41] <ffmpeguser> i am sorry for the delay, because you all care about other people and because i care about other people, and it is necessary because it is a problem, all problems must be solved to avoid the worsening of the existing problems and/or the creation of new problems
[02:43] <ffmpeguser> ffmpeg is an excellent piece of software and i don't want people to be divided, i want everyone to co-operate for the best in everything
[02:45] Action: funman gives miss world price to ffmpeguser
[02:45] <ffmpeguser> what's that? :P
[02:47] <funman> usually the miss make a talk where she asks for world peace
[02:47] <iive> ffmpeguser: well, actually developers are working. they may be working in their own forks, but as long as the forks are merging stuff, they kind of work together. like it or not.
[02:52] <GorDonFreeMan> hi guys
[02:52] <GorDonFreeMan> can someone tell my why does "motion" having such a hard time using ffmpeg? http://pastebin.com/gdx0wsDC
[02:53] <GorDonFreeMan> http://pastebin.com/2TLXsJgA
[02:53] <GorDonFreeMan> motion Version trunkREV548, ffmpeg version 0.8.7.git-070a40f, gcc (GCC) 4.4.4 20100726
[02:56] <GorDonFreeMan> maybe someone can give a generalized formula for using FFMPEG recording a webcam/getting images?
[02:56] <GorDonFreeMan> or example code in C ?
[02:56] <ffmpeguser> funman: i'm a man :P, and that miss world talk doesn't make a difference, otherwise we would have world peace already | iive the only thing that matters is if it makes everything and everyone better, if it doesn't then we have a problem
[02:58] <ohsix> i think things are better without the trolling or those personality types, that it can be construed in any way that they wish to improve the project by any of their actions strains credulity
[02:58] <ffmpeguser> it's a good thing that code is being shared, but if all of you worked together as you did in the past, it would be even better
[02:58] <ohsix> oops, scrolled up
[02:59] <ffmpeguser> personality types?
[03:02] <funman> GorDonFreeMan: you should ask on #ffmpeg
[03:04] <GorDonFreeMan> ok but my question still stands for developers for a universal intelligent way of using ffmpeg that will work preferrably for most versions.
[03:05] <ohsix> worked together as you did in the past? hah
[03:06] <ffmpeguser> you all* :P
[03:06] <GorDonFreeMan> well motion's developers say they can't keep up with ffmpeg's protocol change.
[03:06] <ohsix> ffmpeguser: the kind of people who make "jokes" where a person or a cultural artifact has to be denigrated
[03:06] <ffmpeguser> well some of you i don't know all of the developers :P
[03:06] <funman> GorDonFreeMan: nope, ffmpeg use is discussed on #ffmpeg only
[03:07] <funman> developers hang out on this channel too
[03:07] <ffmpeguser> ohsix: what people ?
[03:08] <ohsix> you've got reading to do anyways, you'll find out who
[03:09] <ohsix> people not operating in good faith, or buying into conspiracy theories because they can't control their own circumstance
[03:10] <ffmpeguser> we'll take care of that kind of people
[03:11] <ohsix> if you do, you will not find the situation you are looking for, or much different from the current one
[03:12] <ffmpeguser> are you happy with this situation?
[03:12] <ohsix> there's a spectrum of like and dislike, i find that without the constant trolling andmeanspirited shit that has nothing to do with ffmpeg being lessened is good
[03:13] <ffmpeguser> i don't understand you
[03:14] <ohsix> this is honestly the only project i've been interested in that has basically not moved forward in like 6 years because of that stuff, they only started packaging regular releases a while ago too
[03:14] <ohsix> it's none of my business, don't worry about it,bbl
[03:17] <ffmpeguser> that's the problem ohsix, only if people involve themselves to help solve the problem it will be solved, otherwise nothing will change
[03:18] <ohsix> you seem to think that there are people that are'nt just worthless drags on what you like to do, you need to have mutual goals or there's no point in even affiliating
[03:18] <ohsix> i would not have a person follow me around just to scream obscenities at me while i do carpentry, for example
[03:18] <ffmpeguser> that's what i'm talking about, everyone must want the same things
[03:19] <ohsix> it is a distraction, and i'mnot doing much to help it, bbl
[03:21] <ffmpeguser> if they don't, then we must learn why exactly there is a disagreement, and if they are playing around, then they will be told to leave or they will be removed without prior notice and/or a warning
[03:54] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: 03Martin Storsjö 07master * r617475a95c 10ffmpeg/libavformat/applehttp.c: 
[03:54] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: applehttp: Use half the target duration as interval if the playlist didn't update
[03:54] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: This is mandated in draft-pantos-http-live-streaming-07, section
[03:54] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: 6.3.4.
[03:54] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: Signed-off-by: Martin Storsjö <martin at martin.st>
[03:54] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: 03Thad Ward 07master * r7af507ea99 10ffmpeg/libavcodec/lagarith.c: 
[03:54] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: lagarith: add decode support for arith rgb24 mode
[03:54] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: Signed-off-by: Anton Khirnov <anton at khirnov.net>
[03:54] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: 03Andrey Utkin 07master * r356ae5f65b 10ffmpeg/libavformat/applehttp.c: 
[03:54] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: applehttp: Use the last segment duration as reload interval
[03:54] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: According to draft-pantos-http-live-streaming-07, 6.3.4,
[03:54] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: the duration of the last media segment in the playlist
[03:54] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: should be used as initial minimum reload delay.
[03:54] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: Signed-off-by: Martin Storsjö <martin at martin.st>
[03:54] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: 03Aneesh Dogra 07master * rac1c27bc2b 10ffmpeg/tests/ (4 files in 2 dirs): 
[03:54] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: fate: add more tests for VC-1 decoder
[03:54] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: Signed-off-by: Janne Grunau <janne-libav at jannau.net>
[03:54] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: 03Luca Barbato 07master * r762b21f9f7 10ffmpeg/doc/doxy/doxy_stylesheet.css: 
[03:54] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: doxygen: cleanup style to support older doxy
[03:54] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: Doxygen 1.7.5.1 had been used as reference while certain distributions
[03:54] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: provide older and not fully compatible versions.
[03:54] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: 03Aneesh Dogra 07master * r8ca903ebcb 10ffmpeg/tests/ (fate.mak fate2.mak ref/fate/xan-dpcm ref/fate/xxan_wc4_video): 
[03:54] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: fate: Add a video test for xxan decoder
[03:54] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: Signed-off-by: Ronald S. Bultje <rsbultje at gmail.com>
[03:54] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: 03Aneesh Dogra 07master * r9342ecf02e 10ffmpeg/libavcodec/mpegvideo_enc.c: 
[03:54] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: mpegvideo_enc: K&R cosmetics (line 1000-2000).
[03:54] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: Signed-off-by: Ronald S. Bultje <rsbultje at gmail.com>
[03:54] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: 03Martin Storsjö 07master * rcf4afe0be6 10ffmpeg/tools/qt-faststart.c: 
[03:54] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: qt-faststart: Fix up indentation
[03:55] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: 03Michael Niedermayer 07master * r00c0465dbc 10ffmpeg/: (log message trimmed)
[03:55] <CIA-101> (13 lines omitted)
[04:38] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: 03Michael Niedermayer 07master * r67c734ea5c 10ffmpeg/libavformat/flvdec.c: 
[04:38] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: flvdec: Disable metadatacreator "MEGA" hack
[04:38] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: Signed-off-by: Michael Niedermayer <michaelni at gmx.at>
[04:38] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: 03Michael Niedermayer 07master * r83f70805c0 10ffmpeg/libavformat/flvdec.c: 
[04:38] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: flvdec: Print a warning in all failure cases of parse_keyframes_index()
[04:38] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: Signed-off-by: Michael Niedermayer <michaelni at gmx.at>
[04:38] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: 03Michael Niedermayer 07master * rdf0bff6643 10ffmpeg/libavformat/flvdec.c: 
[04:38] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: flvdec: Check index for being valid
[04:38] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: Fixes seeking in Enigma_Principles_of_Lust.flv
[04:38] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: Signed-off-by: Michael Niedermayer <michaelni at gmx.at>
[04:46] <ffmpeguser> i have a wmv file here that when it is played back and it is paused, the vq value starts to increase slowly
[04:46] <ffmpeguser> http://www.pianopractice.org/TOscale.wmv
[04:47] <Shimmy> ICan anyone please help: https://ffmpeg.org/trac/ffmpeg/ticket/747
[04:47] <Shimmy> Can anyone please help: https://ffmpeg.org/trac/ffmpeg/ticket/747
[04:48] <Shimmy> If you read the comments in that link, you'll realize that the job is mostly done
[04:48] <Shimmy> It just needs to be copied from the amv-codec-tools project to be fully supported
[04:49] <Shimmy> Could event be it's a 5 min job for a C/FFmpeg wizard
[04:49] <ffmpeguser> what do you mean that you will promote a developer?
[04:51] <Shimmy> I don't know what ppl usually promote with, but I should have deleted that line (if I could - i can't) - my budget is very limited :'(
[04:52] <Shimmy> But would could be considered a bounty? ($5? $15000? flowers? what?)
[04:52] <ffmpeguser> you mean that you will pay/compensate them for their time and knowledge
[04:53] <ffmpeguser> maybe a beer :P, there might be someone here that can do it, i don't know if they are planning to add support for that
[04:54] <Shimmy> lol i WILL send a beer to someone who completes it...
[04:54] <Shimmy> anyway, if you can see, the only problem is the adpcm_ima_amv encoder, which is the amv underlying audio needed by my devices
[04:56] <ffmpeguser> there are some websites with programmers that you can contact that could work for you, but i don't know how much they will ask for
[04:57] <Shimmy> this codec is implemented in the amv-codec-tools project (http://code.google.com/p/amv-codec-tools/source/browse/trunk/AMVmuxer/ffmpeg/libavcodec/adpcm.c)
[04:57] <ffmpeguser> freelancers
[04:58] <Shimmy> Any range? In my country programmers get very cheap, that's why I said that my bud is limited
[04:59] <Shimmy> do u believe i can find some ninja to do it for fun?
[04:59] <ffmpeguser> maybe a college or a university student
[04:59] <Shimmy> for geekness satisfaction
[05:00] <Shimmy> can these ppl be found here?
[05:00] <ffmpeguser> no, here it is the development channel of the ffmpeg project, try #c
[05:01] <Shimmy> #c leads to nowehere
[05:01] <ffmpeguser> use this "/join #c" without the quotes, type it where you type to sent text to the channel
[05:01] <Daemon404> Shimmy, i was looking at that
[05:02] <Daemon404> apparently ffmpeg does not actually even have an amv muxer
[05:02] <Daemon404> i think
[05:02] <Daemon404> ffmpeguser, dont be a dick
[05:02] <ffmpeguser> what?
[05:03] <Daemon404> the proper place is here
[05:03] <Daemon404> just dont spam bugtracker links every few hrs
[05:04] <ffmpeguser> well, that's the only other option he has if no one from the ffmpeg team adds support for what he needs
[05:05] <Daemon404> third option is patience
[05:05] <ffmpeguser> that too :P
[05:07] <Shimmy> ok
[05:07] <Shimmy> hope some1 will be able to help me
[05:10] <ffmpeguser> of course they can, but they are also fixing bugs, and working on other things too, so what you need probably has a lower priority, Daemon404 knows better
[05:10] <Daemon404> wut?
[05:12] <ffmpeguser> you know better if they'll work on it or not
[05:13] <Daemon404> it'll get done one day if im bored, or someone else wants to do it
[05:13] <Daemon404> but there's not a huge demand for hw support for hacked-up chinese "standards" <.<
[05:13] <Daemon404> or w/e it is
[05:14] <ffmpeguser> he said: This issue is very urgent to me and I consider promoting a developer that will make it work.
[05:14] <Daemon404> i see
[05:14] <ffmpeguser> not standards, implementations that are not standards
[05:15] <Daemon404> yes
[05:25] <Shimmy> thing is i have devices that read only amv format, here is a sample of an amv file that is supported by my device: http://pastebin.com/SCmgr6k3
[05:25] <Daemon404> you can decode amv stuff fine
[05:26] <Daemon404> we lack encoders and muxers
[05:26] <Shimmy> Stream #0:0: Video: amv, yuvj420p, 176x128, 16 tbr, 16 tbn, 16 tbc
[05:26] <Shimmy> Stream #0:1: Audio: adpcm_ima_amv ([1][0][0][0] / 0x0001), 22050 Hz, 1 channels, s16, 352 kb/s
[05:26] <Shimmy> i need to encode not decode, i need to make all the other vids playable in the device...
[05:27] <Daemon404> i dont think we even support encoding the video
[05:28] <ffmpeguser> avoid buying chinese products that don't follow environmental and technical standards if possible in the future
[05:29] <ffmpeguser> or any other kind of electronics from any country that doesn't, for that matter
[05:29] <Shimmy> amv is in the encoders list
[05:29] <Daemon404> lesse
[05:29] <Daemon404>  D A D  adpcm_ima_amv   ADPCM IMA AMV
[05:29] <Daemon404>  D V    amv             AMV Video
[05:30] <Shimmy> When I call ffmpeg -codecs, it contains the line D A D adpcm_ima_amv ADPCM IMA AMV, which means Decoding supported, Audio codec, Direct rendering, but it doesn't contain E which stands for Encoding.
[05:31] <Daemon404> [23:29] < Shimmy> amv is in the encoders list <-- where do yo usee this
[05:31] <Shimmy>  DEV    amv             AMV Video
[05:31] <Daemon404> hmm
[05:31] <Daemon404> i wonder...
[05:31] <Shimmy> FFmpeg version 0.9
[05:31] <Shimmy> Harmoney
[05:31] <Shimmy> I copied it from there, im seeing it right now
[05:32] <Shimmy> http://ffmpeg.org/index.html#pr9
[05:32] <Shimmy> amv encoding support added
[05:32] <Daemon404> ah
[05:32] <Daemon404> i found the problem
[05:33] <Daemon404> i was on teh wrong source tree
[05:33] <ffmpeguser> :P
[05:33] <Daemon404> (libav vs ffmpeg
[05:33] <Daemon404> )
[05:33] <Shimmy> anyway when it does't appear in -formats tho
[05:34] Action: Daemon404 hasn't been terribly productive today
[05:35] <Daemon404> spent a lot of time getting up a clang-cross-compile to arm from x86_64
[05:35] <ffmpeguser> eat healthy
[05:36] <Shimmy> i wish i would know c
[05:36] <Shimmy> i started learning it, but till ill be able to participate in ffmpeg development it will take a time i guess...
[05:37] <ffmpeguser> all difficult things take time to master
[05:38] <Daemon404>  DEV    amv             AMV Video
[05:38] <Daemon404> there we go.
[05:38] <Shimmy> right
[05:39] <Shimmy> but if you check ffmpeg -formats, amv isnt there
[05:39] <Shimmy> also when checking -codecs, adpcm_ima_amv  is DAD, no E
[05:39] <Shimmy> which is what im after
[05:39] <Daemon404> yes
[05:39] <Daemon404> no muxer and no audio encoder.
[05:39] <ffmpeguser> i confirm that with the latest zeranoe build from dec 26
[05:40] <Shimmy> also, im not sure what about the yuvj420p thing
[05:41] <Shimmy> i dont have the devices handy
[05:41] <Daemon404> that's just a colorspace.
[05:41] <Shimmy> check out this: yuvj420p
[05:41] <Daemon404> used iirc in mjpeg-like codecs
[05:41] <Shimmy> sorry, this http://pastebin.com/SCmgr6k3
[05:41] <Daemon404> yes it's the colorspace. not really relevant.
[05:41] <Shimmy> u mean that the main vid format is amv
[05:41] <Shimmy> right?
[05:42] <Daemon404> codec is not the same as a colorspace.
[05:42] <Shimmy> can u take a look at the adpcm_ima_amv encoder here http://code.google.com/p/amv-codec-tools/source/browse/trunk/AMVmuxer/ffmpeg/libavcodec/adpcm.c
[05:42] <Shimmy> perhaps its just copy-paste job to sew it in in ffmpeg
[05:43] <Shimmy> and enable muxing/demuxing
[05:43] <Daemon404> adding an encoder for the audio is easy peasy
[05:43] <Daemon404> the muxer is a bit more annoying
[05:43] <Shimmy> now lemme tell u a little secert
[05:43] <Shimmy> i barely know what muxing is at all
[05:44] <Daemon404> the .amv format
[05:44] <Daemon404> the file itself, how it is layed out, etc
[05:44] <Shimmy> based on what i know its composing the various streams in a video file = muxing
[05:44] <Daemon404> the real term is multiplexing, if it helps
[05:45] <Shimmy> makes it more complicated ;P
[05:45] <Shimmy> i found a wiki article - time to learn something
[05:46] <ffmpeguser> the others are fake :P
[05:47] <Shimmy> its like there is one "machine code" for videos that all formats go thru? is that correct?
[05:48] <Daemon404> gimme a sec, im adding teh audio support.
[05:49] <Shimmy> u kidn me
[05:50] <ffmpeguser> no, he doesn't | what about this [alac @ 003EA320] Unsupported channel count: 6?
[05:52] <Daemon404> i dont know anything about alax
[05:52] <Daemon404> alac*
[05:52] <ffmpeguser> getting rid off quicktime completely would be nice, they stopped bundling it with the windows version of itunes
[05:53] <Shimmy> what's the best ide to develop ffmpeg on windows
[05:53] <ffmpeguser> the one that helps you be more productive
[05:53] <Shimmy> which is?
[05:53] <Shimmy> which one do u use
[05:53] <Shimmy> and other ppl use
[05:54] <Shimmy> i mean most ppl
[05:54] <ffmpeguser> i don't use anything, i don't write code yet
[05:54] <Shimmy> im a .net dev, im dying to learn c & c++
[05:54] <Shimmy> i think if ill have a cool environment for ffmpeg development ill be able to adapt quickly 
[05:54] <ffmpeguser> on windows most people use the IDE and the compilers of microsoft
[05:55] <ffmpeguser> visual studio
[05:57] <Dragooon> Hola!
[05:58] <ffmpeguser> the best is the one that covers your needs perfectly or close to perfectly
[05:59] <Shimmy> i do use VS for all my projects
[05:59] <Shimmy> but i dont thing its good for C development
[05:59] <Shimmy> i think it cant compile/debug ffmpeg at all
[06:00] <Shimmy> im curious what most ffmpeg developers use (if there are any that use a PC and not unix...)
[06:00] <ffmpeguser> if i'm not mistaken most ffmpeg developers develop on linux
[06:00] <Shimmy> which they would then use __________ for an ide
[06:00] <ffmpeguser> Daemon404: should know
[06:01] <Shimmy> hes bz with makin that audio encoder/demuxer/cobra haha
[06:01] <Dragooon> Not that I'm a developer but generally Linux works best
[06:01] <ffmpeguser> the hardcore developers use vim or emacs :P
[06:01] <ohsix> you can get arbitrarily fancy with a text editor, which is what an ide is
[06:01] <Shimmy> im talking about an ide, not an os
[06:02] <Shimmy> ohsix, i know but i do want some syntax highlighting etc.
[06:02] <Shimmy> im new to C
[06:02] <Shimmy> i only use C#/VB.NET
[06:03] <Shimmy> i also need an ide that can configure/build ffmpeg easily + can connect to git
[06:03] <Shimmy> im really curious what do all he ffmpegers do
[06:03] <Shimmy> which ide they use
[06:03] <ffmpeguser> yes, you can use also a text editor (which is what essentially an IDE is with extra functionality for software development) with highlighting for your brain to locate faster the code of interest in the opened source code file :P
[06:03] <Dragooon> I couldn't find one IDE that had good support for git
[06:04] <ffmpeguser> (using your eyes of course :P)
[06:05] <ohsix> git does way more than the checkout/diff/checkin most of the simple stuff people want or expect, why you'd want some wrapper is beyond me
[06:05] <ohsix> you may as well not even use "git", and just get tarballs, or prepare diffs from just a checkout
[06:05] <Dragooon> There are some functions of git which work better with a GUI
[06:05] <Dragooon> Mostly selective staging
[06:06] <ohsix> prove it
[06:06] <Dragooon> How?
[06:06] <ohsix> exactly
[06:06] <Dragooon> That's my opinion
[06:07] <Dragooon> Plus git clients like tower are pretty complete
[06:07] <ffmpeguser> you mean that makes it easier for people that are used to using software that has a GUI only
[06:07] <Dragooon> ffmpeguser: Yeah
[06:07] <ohsix> he means a gui is easier for people who don't know the software they hope to use and don't want to figure it out
[06:08] <Dragooon> No
[06:08] <ffmpeguser> i prefer GUIs, but CLIs are still useful even today and that's why we still use them
[06:08] <Dragooon> I prefer GUIs as well, but got no problem with CLI
[06:08] <Dragooon> Using GUIs exclusively is bad
[06:09] <ffmpeguser> not for the people that only want to put audio files in their portable media players :P
[06:09] <Dragooon> I doubt those people will be using git in the first place
[06:09] <ohsix> gui wrappers for stuff like git is for people who misinterpret almost entirely the utility of the thing they're wrapping, for yet another audience that knows little to nothing. yea, they're great
[06:10] <ffmpeguser> ohsix: yes many don't even read the README files
[06:10] <ohsix> the immediate disinterest in actually looking to use the tool you happen to know the name of, and want to learn; but somehow find distasteful in the form almost everyone uses it in is very puzzling
[06:11] <Dragooon> It's just a personal opinion, one may not like CLIs.
[06:11] <ffmpeguser> they don't care, they don't need to know, but that has consequences only for them in most cases
[06:11] <ohsix> then don't use git, just use the checkout/diff/checkin stuff the guis support
[06:12] <ohsix> it's antithetical to the entire idea, you may as well use CVS
[06:12] <Dragooon> Why should someone not use git if they don't like CLIs?
[06:12] <ffmpeguser> they might complain and a RTFM is needed  there
[06:12] <Dragooon> and why should someone use svn/cvs if they like GUIs?
[06:12] <ohsix> in this case, probably because they miss the point entirely
[06:13] <Dragooon> I guess that applies for majority, maybe. Haven't dealt with people new to git, so not too sure
[06:13] <ffmpeguser> because they're feeling adventurous? :P | maybe they want to do one thing only and to never bother again with the piece of software they downloaded for that reason
[06:13] <ohsix> as far as giving advice goes, anyways; you should learn the tool or not bother, because alternative access forms are restricted in ways you won't understand, may never understand
[06:13] <Dragooon> I personally use Tower.git almost exclusively on my Mac, and git cli on linux
[06:14] <ohsix> relying on gui only = no escape hatch when you need to solve something the gui does not do
[06:14] <ffmpeguser> i enjoy using both, and both have weaknesses and strengths
[06:14] <Dragooon> I don' t rely on GUI
[06:15] <Dragooon> I use it because it fits better with the environment(Since Mac's UI are one of the best)
[06:15] <Daemon404> everything shoud still be settable and configurable via gui.
[06:15] <Daemon404> period.
[06:15] <ffmpeguser> i mean advantages and disantvantages
[06:15] <Daemon404> (in an os)
[06:15] <ohsix> everything? even things people have no business of changing?
[06:15] <ohsix> s/of//
[06:15] <Daemon404> everying relevant to a user.
[06:16] <ohsix> it's not, but nice digression
[06:16] <Daemon404> it's why i dont use linux as my main desktop
[06:16] <ffmpeguser> in windows many people in the passed messed up things and windows stopped working and so they had to hide that functionality from the average user
[06:16] <Daemon404> screw dickign with conf files
[06:16] <Dragooon> ffmpeg also uses fate suite for testing, right?
[06:16] <Daemon404> Dragooon, yes
[06:16] <ffmpeguser> in the past*
[06:16] <Dragooon> THanks
[06:16] <ohsix> you shouldn't want for or need to "dick" with conf files
[06:16] <Daemon404> you dont have a choice on linux sometimes.
[06:17] <ohsix> if you do, it's probably indicative of a problem with the distro or what you're doing
[06:17] <Daemon404> x fucks up> OHHHHHHHHHH BOY
[06:17] <ohsix> that old saw eh
[06:17] <Daemon404> <-- worked on X.
[06:17] <Daemon404> i know how evil it is,
[06:17] <ffmpeguser> there are graphical frontends for many things but if you only need to change a line of text you don't really need a frontend for that :P
[06:17] <ohsix> then you know that's not a pracrical reality for just about anyone anymore
[06:18] <Daemon404> except it is.
[06:18] <Daemon404> hw yo
[06:18] <Daemon404> if your he isn't linux-friendly, youre in for a fun ride
[06:18] <ohsix> only if you are stuck with a vendor blob and they're still dragging garbage with them
[06:18] <Shimmy> the problem of simple text editor is that u cant easily navigate between files to external libs/funcs etc
[06:18] <Daemon404> anyway, http://linuxfonts.narod.ru/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html
[06:18] <ohsix> wait, you're not talking about X anymore? i thought that was your prime example
[06:19] <ohsix> good job
[06:19] <ohsix> but yea you don't use it so who knows what you have to say about it is worth
[06:19] <ffmpeguser> that why they developed specialized text editors for software development called IDEs :P
[06:19] <Daemon404> oh how i forgot about ohsix's incessant trolling and/or flamebaiting
[06:19] <ohsix> Shimmy: most text editors that aren't just notepad clones do these things
[06:20] <ohsix> Daemon404: you talk as if you're some authority, there are impresionable people here; let's be clear
[06:20] <Daemon404> and you take like an arrogant fuck
[06:20] <Daemon404> talk*
[06:20] <ohsix> and?
[06:20] <ohsix> i'm sure how i talk is material
[06:21] <ffmpeguser> you both know your stuff
[06:21] <ohsix> let's elaborate and elucidate, pontificate and masturbate
[06:21] <Daemon404> ive never seen ohsix display any technical knowledge.
[06:21] <ffmpeguser> :P
[06:21] <ffmpeguser> ohsix: ?
[06:21] <Shimmy> i did...
[06:21] <Shimmy> "let's elaborate and elucidate, pontificate and masturbate"
[06:21] <ohsix> Daemon404: is that a statistically significant sample?
[06:21] <Shimmy> the last word IS technical
[06:22] <Daemon404> alright, im just going to hush up until the arsehoels go away
[06:22] <ohsix> i bet you are an authority on all the technical knowledge i display too
[06:22] Action: Daemon404 out
[06:22] <ohsix> Shimmy: the implication is that he was being totally fallacious ;]
[06:23] <ohsix> i'm so burdened by what Daemon404 may have seen or not seen that i'm going to play skyrim
[06:24] <ffmpeguser> Daemon404: stated that it's more difficult to configure systems that require text configuration file editing, but that's not true, it's all about if you know what you're doing or not
[06:25] <Daemon404> ffmpeguser, that page is about why linux wont gain general acceptance as a desktop os
[06:25] <Daemon404> i.e. non-technical users.
[06:25] <ohsix> grandparents shouldnt' want or need for editing text files, and you'll find that they don't; who knows how that could be!
[06:25] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: 03Michael Niedermayer 07master * rb0143da806 10ffmpeg/libavcodec/mjpegdec.c: 
[06:25] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: ljpegdec: fix point transform injection.
[06:25] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: Fix Ticket842
[06:25] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: Signed-off-by: Michael Niedermayer <michaelni at gmx.at>
[06:25] <ffmpeguser> the unknown to many people appear to be even more complex that it actually is, i have observed that many times :P
[06:25] Action: Daemon404 really gone now
[06:26] <ohsix> my mom, brother, dad use linux, ever since udev/udisks made user mounting reasonably sane, there haven't been any huge blockers
[06:26] <ffmpeguser> ubuntu made things easier :P
[06:26] <ohsix> ubuntu cared, and that's about all you needed to put the pieces in place; redhat has produced very very good software that has solved the huge problems, and they've been doing it for ages
[06:26] <ffmpeguser> also the refusal to learn new things 'i can't be bothered' etc.
[06:27] <ffmpeguser> yes
[06:27] <ohsix> Daemon404: point of fact, you would have your own list of pet issues if you had any experience at all; and wouldn't defer to someone elses, it's not exactly well cited either; i don't know how so many people buy into barely structured rants tbh
[06:29] <ohsix> the fun thing about opinions is that you can convey your experience basing that opinion to any person interested in them; IF they are reasoned opinions, and fully informed and held opinions, otherwise they are drivel and you shouldn't be so bold as to insult people with them ;]
[06:32] <ohsix> blissfully ignorant catharsis from people that will never contribute to bettering theirs, or anyone elses situation; even regarding the very thing that they choose to invey against for some percieved malfeature
[06:33] <ffmpeguser> ignorance is fucking bad, not bliss. -a greek man :P
[06:33] <Dragooon> This is the best : 12.7kbps, 26 weeks remaining
[06:33] <ffmpeguser> you must have a fiber optic connection, nice :P
[06:35] <ohsix> not knowing things leaves you a huge amount of license to do so in a nearly giddy manner as you savage the rest of society tho, you could get philosophical and argue what bliss is i guess
[06:35] <ffmpeguser> bliss is something religious and it has nothing to do with critical thinking and knowledge
[06:35] <ohsix> you can't be burdened by things you don't know, i think that about sums it up, and if you actively try to not know; as most peoples "default" behaviour is, you can not know a lot of things
[06:35] <ohsix> i dunno about that
[06:36] <ohsix> given most contexts perhaps, but what may make a psychotic happy or blissful surely doesn't hold for many else
[06:37] <ffmpeguser> beliefs do not matter, only the facts do, and facts require knowledge
[06:37] <ffmpeguser> and knowing facts*
[06:38] <ohsix> a belief may act in place of an elaboration of facts and inferences, though
[06:38] <ohsix> outside of religious contexts anyways
[06:38] <ffmpeguser> everyone has a duty to be an active learner, but most people once they learn enough they stop learning
[06:39] <ohsix> i've known too many peoplein my personal life that actively try not to learn anything, like they're avoiding getting hepatitis or something; insofar as saying on more than one occasion something on the order of "i'm out of school i don't need to learn anything anymore", or doing things like conciously avoiding reading, usually at an expense greater than just reading the same thing they're avoiding
[06:39] <ffmpeguser> they use their age too, many people have told me, 'i'm too old to learn how to use a computer', i tell them your brain is still functioning, and it can process and memorize information
[06:40] <ohsix> either to themselves or someone around them, they're a huge drain of good will and energy/time
[06:41] <ohsix> haven't got that one much personally, but yea; i'd probably ask them what else they couldn't learn, heh
[06:42] <ffmpeguser> i have found that many people would like to learn, but the problem is the method of instruction or they simply find it boring, even if they know that it will benefit them, and many times everyone else around them indirectly at least
[06:42] <ohsix> just yesterday a family member was wondering out loud why i kept playing guitar hero, and i asked if she liked to be good at anything; i knew she didn't already :\ why you would decide to do anything, and yet decide at the same time to not do it well is beyond me
[06:42] <ffmpeguser> in the past i was telling people to buy a computer :P
[06:43] <ohsix> i've noticed that just about everyone i know use a computer just to access facebook; so they're mostly moot for any random sampling of people that actually buy computers
[06:44] <ffmpeguser> it's mostly the youngsters
[06:44] <ohsix> the concept of a search engine is foreign to them, it's a means to an end and they will conciously avoid the rest of the internet, like some that i surmise do the same to avoid "catching" some learning disease
[06:45] <ffmpeguser> today almost everyone at least in the usa has a computer in one form or another
[06:46] <ohsix> like if i'm in the same room people will wonder aloud or even ask someone something they can trivially look up on the internet, even for subjects they well know nobody they are asking knows
[06:46] <ffmpeguser> it's close-mindedness in many cases, and in other cases they believe that it's useless
[06:47] <ohsix> these people just poorly utilize anything that is at their disposal, being the internet or smart people, or their car, or their family; it's supremely lazy and i pity them
[06:47] <ffmpeguser> they're practicing their 'people skills' :P
[06:47] <ffmpeguser> yes, all the automation has made many people also
[06:47] <ffmpeguser> lazy also*
[06:48] <ohsix> there's no realistic function for their lazy that actualy rigidly defines saving some definition of "work"
[06:48] <ffmpeguser> 'why should i put effort in that?' if something takes care of that for them
[06:49] <ohsix> like, they'll readily pick fights or argue over things that completely waste their time and energy
[06:50] <ffmpeguser> everything begins with the parents, the parents are the first examples that the child will imitate
[06:50] <ohsix> when i'm lazy i do it in style, lay out the largest tracts of times where i really have no concern or want for something; but these people will just put things off even if they are pressing, only increasing their stress
[06:51] <ohsix> i guess i'm just confused all around, it's not explained by laziness and it's not explained by some preservation mechanism that i can figure out; they're just self destructive
[06:51] <ffmpeguser> that is bad nurture
[06:52] <ffmpeguser> false beliefs, misinformation, selfishness
[06:53] <ohsix> maybe they're conflicted over something, i've seen these same people bargaining with themselves to great lengths over bad behaviour, stuff they know is wrong but they keep convincing themselves it's good or not worth changing
[06:53] <ffmpeguser> most people don't even argue they just yell at each other, they don't analyze arguments
[06:54] <ffmpeguser> they talk with opinions, not facts
[06:55] <ohsix> yea, talking past eachother like it's some affirmation routine
[06:55] <ffmpeguser> they need inspiration, examples, ways they can achieve change or someone to help them change by keeping an eye on them
[06:55] <ohsix> takes a lot of time to think though, people generally budget it poorly or not at all
[06:55] <ffmpeguser> at least the ones that are aware that they can improve themselves
[06:56] <ffmpeguser> many people that i talk with say in the end that their head hurts or i just shut them up :P
[06:56] <ohsix> there are very few people like this that are overall bad off, i guess if they have the time it can be their "thing", instead of being a musician or a reader or whatever people do to fill out their time
[06:57] <ffmpeguser> it's not a coincidence that it's only the people that talk with opinions
[06:57] <ohsix> you won't get them admitting they're an insufferable asshole as a hobby though
[06:57] <ffmpeguser> most people just want to have fun until they fall asleep
[06:58] <ohsix> may be unwarranted self importance and indignation that people even speak to them :]
[06:58] <ohsix> "well if you dare talk to me, take this!"
[07:00] <ffmpeguser> that kind of people need to be handled differently in order to change their minds, if they don't listen to reason they think that they are being treated unfairly, or because they have been treated unfairly and/or badly in the past it's ok to treat everyonre in a certain bad way, or they are simplt selfish
[07:00] <ohsix> fwiw, being an asshole is sort of my hobby; small part among others though, and only because i talk down to people when they start insulting me
[07:00] <ffmpeguser> everyone* simply*
[07:01] <ffmpeguser> i joke as if i was a bad person but never seriously
[07:02] <ohsix> i wonder if it's because they've never valued anything that they put any effort into, not just trivial things
[07:02] <ffmpeguser> it's bullying really if you treat someone like that seriously
[07:03] <ohsix> doing things to the less of their ability instead of the best of their ability, even given equivalent effort
[07:03] <ffmpeguser> they believe that their life is meaningless
[07:04] <ffmpeguser> materialistic people, showing off
[07:04] <ohsix> anyways, don't know why i spent so long talking about my family in here of all places, going to get back to playing video games
[07:05] <ffmpeguser> i wanted the fastest car for example just so that i can say that i have the fastest one, but eventually i realized that it's pointless to have a car that fast, i would be getting the car for the others instead of for me
[07:05] <ffmpeguser> lol
[07:06] <ffmpeguser> you're not addicted yet, leave the keyboard and the mouse down!
[07:06] <ffmpeguser> just joking :P
[07:06] <ohsix> heh cars, that's another place where people waste a lot of money driving poorly, when it's so easy to not waste gasoline
[07:07] <ffmpeguser> in the usa and in greece, it's one of the things that you must have to be cool, the latest cellphone helps too :P
[07:07] <ffmpeguser> iphones are big in greece too
[07:07] <ffmpeguser> everywhere really
[07:08] <ffmpeguser> showing off their jailbreaken iphones :P
[07:08] <ohsix> not that everything in my life is some huge epic task; but if i drive, i rarely do so just to burn gas; so i'm usually watching my braking and stuff, i can only thing of one other person that does, and i think he does it just for the economy, his car gets 17mpg if he's lucky, 4 or 6 if he drives like an ass
[07:10] <ffmpeguser> well i don't drive (long story :P), but if i'm going to get a car it will be one that pollutes the least and not the one that looks 'coolest'
[07:10] <ohsix> it's just safer to drive that way too, affects your impact on congestion as well; you're mostly at the behest of other idiots on the road and they probably don't know or care, even if there's a dash indicator
[07:10] <ohsix> same people have 11 kids in their 16ft SUV and they readily cut you off in traffic like you should have had the sense to move out of the way from such a huge retarded thing on the road
[07:11] <ohsix> too bad they can't tax dispraportionate effort caused by senseless people
[07:11] <ffmpeguser> that kind of people are careless until they kill someone
[07:11] <ohsix> yea, seems like it
[07:12] <ohsix> and they fall the hardest when they do too
[07:12] <ohsix> internalize it or whatever, even if it was a simple mistake or even not their fault/unavoidable
[07:12] <ffmpeguser> yes, because of the guilt
[07:12] <ffmpeguser> that is if they care about other people
[07:13] <ohsix> maybe religion was onto something with that guilt thing
[07:14] <ffmpeguser> only for the religious people
[07:14] <ohsix> the implication, fromt eh perspective of the religious, is that everyone else is or should be :]
[07:15] <ffmpeguser> lol :P
[07:15] <ffmpeguser> you have a big problem there in the usa with the religious people
[07:16] <ffmpeguser> creationism nonsense, and the separation of state and church
[07:17] <ohsix> theres a problem with people rationalizing their behaviour in light of things they disagree with, but can't change; or can change but don't know how/are unwilling to do so
[07:17] <ffmpeguser> but it will be solved eventually, people there take action, they go to courts, they don't play around
[07:18] <ffmpeguser> they organize, everything
[07:18] <ffmpeguser> yes, and that kind of people need the right influence for their minds to change
[07:19] <ffmpeguser> and in a few cases some force
[07:22] <ffmpeguser> it is lack of knowledge and/or selfishness that create most peoblems
[07:22] <ffmpeguser> problems*
[07:25] <ffmpeguser> ok, you can play, i won't hold you longer :P
[07:33] <ohsix> sleep too :]
[07:50] <Shimmy> +Daemon404 you're still there are u
[08:44] <Tjoppen> cbsrobot: right, forgot about that
[10:38] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: 03Reimar Döffinger 07master * r874da652b3 10ffmpeg/libavutil/ (lzo.c lzo.h): 
[10:38] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: Avoid av_memcpy_backptr hang without extra branch.
[10:38] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: This only happens for a "back" value of 0 which is invalid anyway,
[10:38] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: but lcldec does not properly validate input.
[10:38] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: Also extend the documentation to specify valid values.
[10:38] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: Signed-off-by: Reimar Döffinger <Reimar.Doeffinger at gmx.de>
[12:05] <cbsrobot> Tjoppen: thanks a lot - and please let me know if I can test a patch ...
[13:09] <ubitux> saste: hi; i'm working on the showspectrum filter, you didn't start it, right?
[13:13] <saste> ubitux: indeed, it's all yours
[13:13] <ubitux> great :)
[13:14] <ubitux> michaelni: the <link ... /> looks correct, title is not mandatory though
[13:15] <ubitux> (michaelni: also, thanks, it makes me realize i could add a rss feed to lolicri.es ;))
[13:35] <ubitux> saste: btw, how do you plan to fix the a/v sync issue with avf filters?
[13:36] <ubitux> amovie=a.mp3,asplit[a][out0],[a]showaudio[out1]  this quickly leads to video frame drop
[19:20] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: 03Carl Eugen Hoyos 07master * r5ff2c49501 10ffmpeg/configure: Make sure configure does not fail just because unneeded third-party options are used.
[19:43] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: 03Paul B Mahol 07master * r73ba2c1e62 10ffmpeg/libavformat/mp3enc.c: mp3enc: remove unused variable
[20:03] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: 03Paul B Mahol 07master * rba10207bbe 10ffmpeg/ (21 files in 2 dirs): 
[20:03] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: Use more designated initializers.
[20:03] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: Also remove some pointless NULL/0 assigments.
[20:03] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: C++ code must be left as it is because named struct
[20:03] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: initializers are not supported by C++ standard.
[20:36] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: 03Michael Niedermayer 07master * rbace181b48 10ffmpeg/libavformat/flvdec.c: 
[20:36] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: flvdec: Add comment about the 5 second threshold
[20:36] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: Idea-by: Reimar
[20:36] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: Signed-off-by: Michael Niedermayer <michaelni at gmx.at>
[21:08] <ffmpeguser> Daemon404: apple has released the source code of the ALAC, http://alac.macosforge.org/trac/browser/trunk/codec
[21:09] <Daemon404> old news
[21:10] <ffmpeguser> that will help you learn how to make it decode the audio
[21:10] <ffmpeguser> with the -ac 1 option it is played back, but i can't get a downmixed outfile file with -acodec copy
[21:11] <ffmpeguser> output file*
[21:13] <Daemon404> i do not want to fix alac currently.
[21:13] <Daemon404> rather, add more support.
[21:14] <ffmpeguser> ok
[21:21] <Daemon404> sigh. vmware decided to hose all my vms for real
[21:26] <gnafu> Daemon404: You should use VirtualBox or (preferably) KVM :-P.
[21:26] <Daemon404> fuck no
[21:26] <gnafu> XD
[21:27] <Daemon404> virtualbox has never really compared to vmware
[21:27] <Daemon404> and kvm is both annoying to set up, and SLOWER THAN VBOX
[21:27] <Daemon404> lol
[21:28] <gnafu> ffmpeguser: I'm wondering if you don't understand what 'copy' does.  It copies the stream directly.  Anything modifying the stream necessitates reencoding (so copy wouldn't work).  So to go from 2 channels to 1 would necessitate reencoding (and then you'd have to specify '-acodec alac' or whatever it is).
[21:28] <gnafu> At least, that's how I've always understood it.
[21:29] <Daemon404> and you'd be right
[21:32] <ffmpeguser> i do understand what it means, but there's a problem because something isn't possible to be done, if it can be played back i don't know why it would be impossible to copy it downmixed to 1 (or 2 channels)
[21:33] <Daemon404> that os not copying
[21:34] <Daemon404> by definition.
[21:46] <ffmpeguser> Daemon404: the difference would be that the audio stream will appear to the decoder as if it has only 1 or 2 channels (with all of the channels in the stream intact if it's not possible to exclude channels), of course the best would be to use apple's source code for proper and full support
[21:46] <Daemon404> i have no idea wtf youre on about.
[21:46] <ffmpeguser> lol
[21:49] <gnafu> Regardless of the coherence, this is not the appropriate channel for bug reports, feature requests, or general discussions of what would be nice to have.  If you're working on implementing that and would like help with its development, then this would be the appropriate place.
[21:50] <gnafu> Otherwise, #ffmpeg or the ffmpeg-user ML would be a more appropriate place for these kinds of discussions, or filing a bug a la http://ffmpeg.org/bugreports.html.
[22:13] <ffmpeguser> gnafu: we're not talking about things that 'would be nice to have', what i said to Daemon404 is that ffmpeg could have full ALAC support by using apple's source code, he told me that he knows about the source code release already and that he doens't want to work on that now, that he would rather add more support for other things right now, some minutes later you asked me if i know what the -acodec setting with the 'copy' pare
[22:13] <ffmpeguser> doesn't*
[22:15] <ffmpeguser> parameter*
[22:15] <gnafu> You haven't asked any questions related to the code, or shown any intention to add support for any of these things.  As far as I know, ALAC support is already very good in spite of a lack of source from Apple, such that whatever's missing is pretty unimportant to the people who would actually be doing the work.
[22:16] <gnafu> You're more than welcome to do that work, and to ask questions as needed to help you accomplish, but I don't see how anything you've brought up since joining this channel is on-topic for the stated purpose of the channel.
[22:16] <Daemon404> number of people who use more than 2 channels for alac = 0
[22:16] <Daemon404> i cant even think of a valid use for that
[22:17] <gnafu> Well, you can use it for surround sound tracks, like with FLAC.  But yes, I don't believe it's been seen in the wild much.
[22:17] <ffmpeguser> the files are from the library of final cut, a video editing software application
[22:18] <Daemon404> gnafu, no container supports it
[22:18] <Daemon404> except maybe nut
[22:19] <gnafu> XD
[22:19] <ffmpeguser> i don't need support for 6 channels, but someone else might use it, just because i don't use something it doesn't mean that something is useless for everyone else on earth
[22:20] <Daemon404> this is for development talk
[22:20] <gnafu> Of course, but this channel isn't about whether something would be useful for someone.  It's about people who are actually working on it.
[22:20] <Daemon404> ^
[22:20] <ffmpeguser> but these files have 6 channels, i didn't create these files
[22:20] <gnafu> There are millions of things that would be useful for someone out there.  But if no one is willing to work on them, this isn't the place to talk about them.
[22:21] <gnafu> ffmpeguser: If you're not going to do the work for ffmpeg to gain support for them, then your feature request (which is what it is) belongs in the bug tracker.
[22:21] <gnafu> And it will be looked at by knowledgeable people as they are able, and it is more likely to be looked at that way than it is being brought up here.
[22:35] <ffmpeguser> gnafu: Daemon404 didn't say that he's not willing to look into it at all, he said that he won't do it now, i never said that i'm a software engineer, this is the ffmpeg development channel, and it is a development matter because we talked about source code, so these things were talked about in the right place, and with the right person, i'll register and i'll create a ticket now
[22:36] <Daemon404> no.
[22:36] <Daemon404> this channel is not for feature requests.
[22:40] <ffmpeguser> i know that, i only informed you about it because you told me yesterday that you don't know anything about '[alac @ 003EA2E0] Unsupported channel count: 6'
[23:03] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: 03Michael Niedermayer 07master * re146ad95d7 10ffmpeg/libavcodec/mlp_parser.c: 
[23:03] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: mlp_parser: Fix infinite loop with 0 bytes_left.
[23:03] <CIA-101> ffmpeg: Signed-off-by: Michael Niedermayer <michaelni at gmx.at>
[23:30] Action: Daemon404 yawns
[23:30] <Daemon404> cross-compiled ffmpeg running fate under qemu
[23:30] <Daemon404> on ppc and mips
[23:30] <Daemon404> cause i was bored.
[23:30] <gnafu> :-)
[23:31] <Daemon404> (with clang of course)
[00:00] --- Sat Dec 31 2011