[Ffmpeg-devel-irc] ffmpeg.log.20120425

[burek]

[02:13] <bencc> I want to let users publish live camera stream from both Flash and Html5 and to publish it live to both Flash and Html5
[02:13] <bencc> erlyvideo let me do this for Flash
[02:13] <bencc> can I send the live stream to ffmpeg and transcode it, send it back to erlyvideo and send it to the users?
[02:15] <phunyguy_> Is decoding 7.1 channel 24bit dts-hd ma on the horizon for ffmpeg and getting the raw data out forencoding to flac as 8ch 24bit?
[04:40] <eli_> hello
[04:45] <phunyguy_> Hai
[04:46] <eli_> hi phunyguy :D
[05:03] <gustavo_cm> Hello there! I find here http://blog.pcode.nl/2010/10/17/encoding-webm-using-ffmpeg/ a ffmpeg preset to libvpx. Does anyone know if it's possible to use a libvpx preset like libx264-max? Where could I find such information?
[05:11] <gustavo_cm> Well, I found this: http://www.webmproject.org/tools/encoder-parameters/#10-sample-command-lines -- how to pass these parameters to ffmpeg?
[09:33] <cbreak-work> what's the time base of the value I get with best_effort_timestamp?
[09:34] <cbreak-work> when I call av_opt_ptr(avcodec_get_frame_class(), _frameVideo, "best_effort_timestamp");
[09:34] <cbreak-work> _frameVideo is an AVFrame*
[09:38] <cbreak-work> for some videos I tried, the associated AVCodecContext has a working seeming time base
[09:43] <cbreak-work> seems it's in the video stream
[09:44] <cbreak-work> the one in the codec is not valid in this case. weird.
[15:24] <andrew_> Is there a way to have ffmpeg output a non-seekable mp4 format?
[15:25] <andrew_> Basically, I need to pipe the output of ffmpeg to a video player, and need to get ffmpeg to output it appropriately
[15:26] <JEEB> I don't think you can make a completely non-seekable mp4 file, but there's the fragments feature in the container that lets one have some data without getting the full index
[15:26] <JEEB> not sure if ffmpeg supports fragments
[15:27] <andrew_> Ok, I did see that in the MP4 muxer
[15:27] <andrew_> in the documentation
[15:27] <JEEB> of course you'll also have to make sure the player side likes fragments
[15:27] <andrew_> yea, thats annoying
[15:27] <JEEB> otherwise it'll just put a trollface on you
[15:28] <JEEB> *on a trollface for you
[15:28] <andrew_> Lol, would you happen to know if Android's MediaPlayer class supports it?
[15:29] <JEEB> no idea
[15:29] <andrew_> ok, thought it would be worth asking
[15:30] <andrew_> but, at least, ffplay should support it, right
[15:30] <andrew_> but, at least, ffplay should support it, right?
[15:31] <JEEB> everything that uses a recent enough libavformat/-codec should support it
[15:32] <andrew_> ok, last compiled last week should be recent enough I imagine then
[15:33] <JEEB> yeah
[17:00] <Yeti218> Newbie question: i did the not option part of the oneiric ffmpeg install on ffmpeg.org
[17:01] <Yeti218> however at the end the executables are not in my path, the hash commands fail and when i try to encode a file with h264 encoding it says Unknown encoder 'h264'
[17:02] <Yeti218> Any idea why it doesn't recognize -vcodec h264?
[17:05] <JEEB> because ffmpeg has no H.264 encoder of its own?
[17:05] <JEEB> the only way to encode H.264 is to compile libx264, and then ffmpeg with it
[17:11] <Yeti218> I understand, but i followed https://ffmpeg.org/trac/ffmpeg/wiki/UbuntuCompilationGuide
[17:11] <Yeti218> it installs x264
[17:12] <Yeti218> I didnt get any errors, just zillions of warnings, but i am used to that when installing from source
[17:14] <JEEB> well, then if you have libx264 support compiled into ffmpeg, then it's -vcodec (or -c:v) libx264
[17:14] <JEEB> not vcodec h264
[17:14] <JEEB> because h264 is only a decoder
[17:15] <Yeti218> ah that could be it, let me check
[17:16] <Yeti218> it seems to be working, it is running
[17:17] <JEEB> now you'll probably want to learn about some things relative to x264 encoding
[17:17] <JEEB> there's a -preset:v setting that can set the libx264 preset (which is basically the setting to set compression/speed)
[17:17] <Yeti218> it worked!
[17:17] <JEEB> http://mewiki.project357.com/wiki/X264_Settings#preset
[17:18] <Yeti218> what i am interested in is .. converting videos into videos that are better suited for smartphones .. filesize-wise and resolution-wise
[17:19] <Yeti218> i have decided to go for mp4 container and h264 encoding
[17:20] <JEEB> also, the default is crf 23 if you don't set any rate control mode for the video codec. crf is the closest thing to "constant quality" we currently have, and it works so that higher numbers mean less bitrate used, while lower numbers mean more bitrate used (the idea is to use the highest number that still looks good for you)
[17:20] <JEEB> (in other words, 1pass crf if you care about quality, 2pass bitrate-based encoding if you care more about file size)
[17:20] <Yeti218> ok, so i should experiment with that number and try to get it as high as possible?
[17:20] <JEEB> (the option for crf in ffmpeg is -crf btw)
[17:21] <JEEB> and it goes up to 51 + then there are the emergency modes that also do denoise (which are used in cases when you have set bitrate limitations and otherwise a frame wouldn't fit the buffer)
[17:21] <JEEB> (zero is lossless encoding, which won't work with hardware decoders)
[17:21] <JEEB> also, for devices you usually have to set your -profile:v and -level
[17:22] <JEEB> (Depending on what your device can handle)
[17:22] <Yeti218> that is a lot of information for me to process as i am a bit new to ffmpeg
[17:22] <Yeti218> i am converting videos for Android phones, but there is a large range of Android phones...
[17:22] <JEEB> well, I just told you that crf goes from zero to 51, and that you will also have to set the H.264 profile and levle
[17:22] <JEEB> *level
[17:22] <JEEB> yes
[17:23] <JEEB> very wide
[17:23] <JEEB> f.ex. my first android phone could only take baseline profile + level 3
[17:23] <JEEB> my current phone can take up to high profile (default) level 4.1 or so
[17:24] <JEEB> so basically you'll have to set your own limits depending on the handsets you want to support
[17:24] <JEEB> baseline + level 3 tends to work at many places
[17:26] <andrew_> Does Android support more than baseline profile H.264? I was under the impression that it didn't, but your's can?
[17:26] <JEEB> it completely depends on the phone
[17:26] <JEEB> most phones from middle of 2010+ usually can support more than baseline
[17:27] <Yeti218> that is solid information.. as i only have 2 phones to test it on (galaxy Nexus and htc desire) and both are kinda new so i would not test it correctly without knowing this
[17:27] <JEEB> (but of course there's a LOT of phones that don't, and are still on sale most probably)
[17:27] <andrew_> so it all depends on the hardware? No software decoding support?
[17:27] <JEEB> I don't think many phone makers make the CPU do the decoding
[17:27] <Yeti218> i dont need super quality but i also dont want super big files .. if i manage to reach that goal for older phones i am happy
[17:28] <JEEB> there might be a decoder in the Android source code, but I don't remember. Probably not, it just probably tells you to bolt the mediaplayer API into your hardware decoder's drivers
[17:28] <JEEB> Yeti218, well if you support the older phones you'll be on a resolution of 320x180 or something
[17:28] <Yeti218> gtg, will be back this evening after some experimenting
[17:29] <JEEB> anyways, I'd recommend testing out with the default crf 23 and gradually going up or down from there depending on if it looks good or not
[17:29] <Yeti218> i was planning to make the resolution big enough for newer models and playing it by default player .. which will know how to downscale it is that is needed
[17:29] <JEEB> many phones will just herp a derp at bigger resolutions
[17:29] <JEEB> I think my old phone did, too
[17:30] <JEEB> also I think my old phone's decoder chip was flawed
[17:30] <Yeti218> well that would explain something too
[17:30] <Yeti218> :)
[17:30] <JEEB> it either failed inloop deblocking, or weighted prediction
[17:30] <JEEB> don't remember
[17:30] <JEEB> never cared to test it for the exact problem
[17:31] <Yeti218> gtg, i will start out with this knowledge and test it out .. (atm my videos are 35mb and i have to download them first - way too big if you ask me)
[17:31] <Yeti218> my goal is somewhere < 5 mb if i can do it
[17:32] <JEEB> depends on the length of the clip, frame rate, complexity of the content as well as the resolution (and of course the crf value)
[17:33] <Yeti218> now i really have to go else my kids will stand alone at the street waiting ..
[17:33] <Yeti218> thx for the info, you were really helpful
[18:24] <juanmabc> is there some audio to text, ala youtube testing transliteration module, to make subtitles on the fly?
[18:30] <burek> juanmabc, I don't think so, but you can always just extract the audio and pass it through the speech recognition software
[18:57] <andrew_> Hi again. Im still trying to get android to read a piped m4 stream, but having issues
[18:58] <andrew_> I tried fragmenting the mp4 using flags in the MP4 muxer documentation for ffmpeg, but Android starts playing them, then just sits there
[18:58] <andrew_> Nothing reports any trouble, I just see a black screen
[18:59] <andrew_> I don't know if the issue is that I did it wrong or if Android just doesn't support MP4 fragmented files
[19:00] <andrew_> Does anyone have a suggestion of how to write have ffmpeg format the piped file in such a way that it it would be readable at the begining?
[19:04] <taqattack> Okay. How come I can't use RTMP to stream videos with 1000k bitrate but as soon as I change it to 900k, it starts to stream?
[19:20] <Yeti218> i am a bit overwhelmed by the 6500 lines of man file of ffmpeg ...
[20:50] <Yeti218> Does any of you have settings i could use for compressing (too large) videos into a format that is supported by both Android and iPhone?
[20:52] <JEEB> you need to decide which devices you are trying to support first of all
[20:52] <JEEB> f.ex. for iphone there's the pre-3GS stuff (baseline only AFAIK), and 3GS and further that could take high profile, level 4.1 just fine
[20:53] <JEEB> (just that itunes would not let you transfer the files over if you tried to do it via that way because of their dumb lockdowns)
[20:53] <JEEB> with android there is no such "clear" line as there are over 9000 various devices
[20:54] <JEEB> but there too, you will most probably want to decide if you want to start supporting the low-end as well, or only the high-end devices
[20:54] <JEEB> think of profiles are "feature sets" for compression
[20:57] <Yeti218> ok
[20:57] <Yeti218> suppose i do not want to support any pre-3GS
[20:58] <Yeti218> i have tried a few ffmpeg options and managed to downsize the file from 34mb to 12mb and i do not see much difference
[20:58] <Yeti218> but i have a feeling i can get a lot lower than 12mb still
[20:59] <JEEB> well, if you don't want to support pre-3GS then it's easy >_> the only problem would be stemming from the fact of how you are going to distribute those clips
[20:59] <Yeti218> the only change i made to th source was: -vcodec libx264 -r 13
[20:59] <Yeti218> i have them all in a zip and my app downloads them to the phone and then unzips them
[21:00] <JEEB> ok, so you won't be limited by itunes's crappy limitations
[21:00] <Yeti218> no no, dear god no
[21:00] <Mavrik-> 13 fps videos could look choppy
[21:00] <Yeti218> the app will be in the itunes store, but the videos will be downloaded when installed
[21:01] <JEEB> first of all, 3GS and latter can take up to 720p (was it?) in high profile, level 4.1, but you will probably want to resize to some comfy-for-you level first
[21:01] <JEEB> frame rate limiting I would do only if absolutely needed
[21:03] <Yeti218> atm i have several videos in the zip and i would like to reduce the size, but the videos should still be nice to look at
[21:03] <Yeti218> i am unsure what size is realistic
[21:05] <b_jonas> Yeti218: in that case, just try multiple bitrates, and see which one you like
[21:06] <b_jonas> make sure you lower the resolution to the res of the phone displays
[21:06] <JEEB> first make sure you can output the video size that you are aiming for (resize!), unless you already have that
[21:06] <JEEB> after that, find your highest crf value that still looks good
[21:06] <JEEB> after that, set the preset setting of libx264 to the highest you can bear speed-wise
[21:07] <Yeti218> the source i have: Video: mpeg2video (Main), yuv420p, 720x576 [SAR 16:15 DAR 4:3], 8000 kb/s, 25 fps, 25 tbr, 90k tbn, 50 tbc
[21:07] <Yeti218> Audio: mp2, 48000 Hz, stereo, s16, 224 kb/s
[21:08] <JEEB> (note: crf value is not supposed to be exactly the same thing between presets as the compression algorithms that calculate these values start differing, but it should be relatively close)
[21:08] <JEEB> well, I don't think mobile devices like anamorphic?
[21:08] <JEEB> audio would have to be re-encoded to AAC
[21:10] <Yeti218> i am now trying: -crf 30 -vcodec libx264, does that make sense?
[21:10] <Yeti218> that means i do not change dimensions and sound
[21:12] <JEEB> do -an then to not copy the original audio track over, or do tell me which aac encoders did you compile with?
[21:13] <JEEB> also, yes -- it makes sense, just make sure to check the result?
[21:14] <Yeti218> i think i lost connection
[21:15] <Yeti218> i see horizontal lines but i think that is a problem of the source not the compression i did
[21:16] <JEEB> <JEEB> do -an then to not copy the original audio track over, or do tell me which aac encoders did you compile with?
[21:16] <JEEB> <JEEB> also, yes -- it makes sense, just make sure to check the result?
[21:16] <JEEB> ok, it could be that you are dealing with interlaced content
[21:16] <JEEB> add -vf yadif
[21:16] <JEEB> vf = video filter
[21:16] <JEEB> yadif = deinterlacing video filter
[21:17] <Yeti218> i think you mean this: Stream #0:1 -> #0:1 (mp2 -> libfaac)
[21:19] <Yeti218> i just checked the result and it seems ok but when there is movement i see horizontal lines (glitches) .. i would have to check on the phone to see how bad it is there (last try i did -crf 35)
[21:19] <Yeti218> yes, interlaced content .. i think that is what i am seeing
[21:20] <Yeti218> Wow! not only did the filesize get smaller (no idea why), but it also looks a lot better
[21:21] <Yeti218> it now went from 34mb -> 2.8mb and no indication of interlaced anymore
[21:23] <Yeti218> is this de-interlace option a problem for when i convert videos that are not interlaced?
[21:24] <JEEB> yes
[21:24] <Yeti218> i would like to script processing them so 1 set of parameters would be ideal
[21:25] <JEEB> you can use ffprobe or something to check if the bitstream is tagged interlaced or not :P
[21:26] <JEEB> of course, telecined content is usually encoded interlaced, too -- but that's a whole separate bowl of derp
[21:27] <Yeti218> i am afraid a lot of my content will have a tv source
[21:27] <JEEB> ...telecined has nothing to do with whether or not it's from TV :P
[21:28] <JEEB> anyways, yadif shouldn't rape even telecined content too badly (in the best case it'll just leave you alone with the extra frames)
[21:28] <JEEB> so yeah, just set something to check if the bit stream in the input file is interlaced or not :P
[21:28] <Yeti218> ah ok, i am not a native English speaking person so i kinda guessed telecined meant : broadcasted on tv
[21:29] <JEEB> I can give you a link to a long write-up regarding this all, but I think it'd just make you go wee even more :P
[21:29] <Yeti218> i just did ffprobe but i didnt see any indication that it was interlaced .. not obvisouly that is
[21:29] <Yeti218> i try to absord just as much information as i need for this .. i should be spending my time writing the app
[21:30] <Yeti218> the moment i know what works on (most) devices i will tell others to deliver me videos in that format
[21:32] <JEEB> if tbc is 2x fps it's probably interlaced :P
[21:32] <JEEB> would be my guess
[21:32] <JEEB> because yes, it doesn't seem to straightforwardly give you the answer
[21:32] <Yeti218> i just searched for some indications .. it seems it is not very easy to spot
[21:33] <Yeti218> tbc is indeed 2 x tbs
[21:33] <JEEB> it shouldn't be hard to make ffprobe to output if the stream is marked interlaced or not, not sure why they don't give you that information (´
[21:34] <JEEB> mediainfo would be one lib/app to let you get that info
[21:34] <Yeti218> mediainfo is a windows application right?
[21:35] <JEEB> not only
[21:35] <JEEB> also a library :P
[21:37] <taqattack> What is the proper way to use ffmpeg to stream to RTMP?
[21:37] <Yeti218> i just checked it with mediainfo -> it is interlaced
[21:38] <JEEB> well, d'uh
[21:38] <JEEB> that was pretty obvious
[21:38] <JEEB> but yes, you can use it to check if something is flagged interlaced or not
[21:38] <aphid> rtmp is an abomination
[21:39] <taqattack> Yes but I need to use some protocol to stream
[21:39] <Yeti218> ok, i just checked -crf 40 and it has gotten pretty bad
[21:40] <JEEB> yes, you should add/remove it in smaller steps :P
[21:41] <JEEB> (and it probably got pretty small as well)
[21:43] <Yeti218> i changed changed another setting .. -ac 1   it went to mono and it decreased a bit again
[21:43] <Yeti218> i assume that you wont notice the difference on a smart phone
[21:44] <Yeti218> 2.8mb -> 2.6mb
[21:44] <JEEB> unless you use headphones, yeah
[21:44] <Yeti218> hmm true
[21:44] <Yeti218> is there a codec that you recommend for audio?
[21:45] <JEEB> you can't really use much else but AAC or HE-AAC for the devices you're aiming at
[21:45] <JEEB> if you really want to minimize, use HE-AAC with libaacplus
[21:48] <Yeti218> i think there is more to win on the video side of the file
[21:48] <Yeti218> i am rather happy with the result so far .. but i havent done anything conscious yet with the profile and level we talked about earlier
[21:49] <JEEB> if you are doing stuff for 3GS and latter you don't have to care about profile, it can stay at high (default)
[21:49] <JEEB> as for level, you can just set it at 4
[21:49] <JEEB> also, you did play with the presets, right?
[21:50] <JEEB> because those control the compression vs speed thing in libx264
[21:50] <JEEB> http://mewiki.project357.com/wiki/X264_Settings#preset
[21:50] <Yeti218> -vprofile baseline -level 1
[21:51] <JEEB> lol
[21:51] <JEEB> I don't think you'll be fitting in level 1 :P
[21:51] <JEEB> also, not vprofile
[21:51] <Yeti218> that was an example of the paramaters :)
[21:51] <JEEB> it's -profile:v baseline
[21:51] <Yeti218> oh
[21:52] <JEEB> (in cases of presets and profiles you might want to append :v to the end as AAC encoders love to try and apply the profile f.ex. and then fail)
[21:52] <Yeti218> k, so simply if i set it to slow it will compress better right?
[21:53] <Yeti218> i read something about the problem with profile and AAC
[21:53] <jdstrand> hi, someone reported a security issue against libav in Ubuntu, and it looks like it also affects ffmpeg. what is the email address for the security contact for ffmpeg?
[21:54] <JEEB> yes (in the end of the line preset-wise [slowest ones] for the same crf you might get a wee bit bigger size, but that just means that the algorithms "see" more detail)
[21:54] <jdstrand> hmmm, that is probably better for #ffmpeg-devel
[21:55] <Yeti218> preset slow -> it got a little bit smaller
[21:55] <JEEB> yes, that's the general way of how it goes
[21:59] <Yeti218> how much does the profile and level influence the bytesize?
[21:59] <JEEB> the more limited a profile, the less features can be used to compress a clip
[22:00] <JEEB> level is just a flag
[22:01] <Yeti218> ah, as in the targeted device does not have the decode chip to process it?
[22:02] <Yeti218> hmm the high profile got 1/6 smaller than the baseline
[22:03] <JEEB> (also the slower the preset the more features from higher profiles get used)
[22:03] <Yeti218> i am testing veryslow atm to see what the result is
[22:04] <Yeti218> btw are you a user of ffmpeg or one of its developers?
[22:05] <JEEB> I have a commit in ffmpeg, but it's a very simple one, so you can't really count me as a "developer" -- I'm mostly a user :P
[22:06] <Yeti218> heh heh
[22:19] <Yeti218> maybe something too far away from the functionality from ffmpeg .. but would it be possible to create a video from a foto + mp3?
[22:24] <taqattack> What's xuggler. How is it related to Ffmpeg
[22:27] <Yeti218> hmm i found a little glitch in ffmpeg
[22:27] <Yeti218> if i use as input -i "bla, (sdf).mp4" it cannot find the file to process
[22:28] <Yeti218> even though the OS accepts this as a valid filename to copy etc
[22:45] <JEEB> Yeti218, you have to select a container that is supported by the thing you are encoding (reply to your damn pm)
[22:46] <Yeti218> i just re-used the container the original was in
[22:46] <JEEB> so you think an iPhone would support mpeg-ps?
[22:46] <JEEB> sure, use it if you want :P
[22:46] <Yeti218> i might have been lucky
[22:46] <JEEB> mp4 is the format you want
[22:46] <JEEB> end of story
[22:46] Action: JEEB sighs
[22:51] <aphid> maybe someday apple will support webm
[22:53] <JEEB> ahaha
[22:53] <JEEB> maybe after there will be actual ASICs for VP8
[22:53] <JEEB> actually on board actual hardware
[22:55] <aphid> there's momentum on the hardware stuff
[22:55] <JEEB> let's just say that I'm not holding my breath
[22:55] <aphid> ...it's almost as if companies don't like paying into patent cartels.. preposterous I know
[23:15] <Yeti218> the problem with patents is that there is always someone who has patented "use a thing with another thing" and then you are screwed
[23:17] <aphid> you're not screwed if it's for something obvious
[23:18] <aphid> but it ultimately just comes down to who has more lawyers.  mpegla and the vp8 pool they're still in the process of forming (more than a year after they called for patent submissions) have plenty of them.. so does google and their pool.
[23:46] <Yeti218> are all x264 parameters, parameters of the ffmpeg command as well?
[23:46] <JEEB> what?
[23:47] <Yeti218> x264 has -tune, does that mean ffmpeg has it as well?
[23:47] <JEEB> first of all
[23:47] <JEEB> x264 has --tune
[23:47] <JEEB> but yes
[23:47] <JEEB> ffmpeg has -tune
[23:47] <JEEB> it has -preset, -profile, -level and -tune
[23:48] <JEEB> almost everything else you will most probably have to set via the x264opts interface
[23:48] <Yeti218> i am fiddling a bit with -tune now to see if i can notice any difference
[23:49] <canbal> hi, is there any working progress or any plans on supporting H.264/MVC encoding and/or decoding in ffmpeg?
[23:50] <JEEB> ffmpeg doesn't handle MVC to begin with
[23:50] <JEEB> s/MVC/H.264/
[23:50] <JEEB> (encoding)
[23:50] <JEEB> x264 had an MVC GSoC last year
[23:50] <JEEB> but the student has since vanished into thin air
[23:51] <canbal> i see, so there are no plans to add the support to ffmpeg? and x264 somewhat supports it, but not entirely?
[23:51] <JEEB> there was also a patch provided by a company that corp. licensed x264 for MVC encoding, but that was not merged into the mainline because the student IIRC was still around then and they were similar
[23:51] <JEEB> (the patches, I mean)
[23:52] <JEEB> at the moment mainline x264 doesn't support it at all
[23:52] <JEEB> the patches for MVC probably lie somewhere on pastebins, but neither of them was officially implemented
[23:52] <canbal> ok, what you mean by ffmpeg doesn't support h.264 encoding, it supports mpeg4 though
[23:52] <JEEB> it doesn't have a H.264 encoder?
[23:53] <JEEB> it only has an interface for usage of libx264
[23:53] <canbal> oh i see
[23:53] <canbal> sorry for the confusion
[23:53] <JEEB> as for decoding, I don't remember if anyone worked on MVC
[23:54] <canbal> ok, and there are no plans for that either? i work on H.264/MVC related research
[23:54] <JEEB> also, x264 can use frame packing for multiple views, and IIRC the compression benefit for MVC wasn't even that big with the stuff that was implemented
[23:54] <JEEB> *from MVC
[23:55] <canbal> and i am trying to see to what extent it is supported (dev version) and if i can be any help
[23:55] <JEEB> dunno about plans, I've not seen any
[23:55] <JEEB> people are welcome to try their luck
[23:55] <canbal> :)
[23:55] <JEEB> (with both x264 and the GSoC project that never got merged, as well as libavcodec)
[23:57] <JEEB> does the JM H.264 reference decoder even support MVC yet?
[23:57] <canbal> yes it does now
[23:58] <canbal> only works for stereo though
[23:58] <canbal> they have a hard limitation on number of views
[23:58] <canbal> i personally work on JMVC
[23:58] <canbal> which is the reference SW for MVC
[23:58] <JEEB> ok, so it's still separate from JM
[23:59] <canbal> i guess you may say that
[23:59] <canbal> but JM also started to support 3D
[23:59] <canbal> and i think it does have full support except for number of views supported
[00:00] --- Thu Apr 26 2012