[Ffmpeg-devel-irc] ffmpeg.log.20130224

burek burek021 at gmail.com
Mon Feb 25 02:05:01 CET 2013


[09:41] <Fuuzetsu> Greetings. I'm attempting to capture certain frames using ffmpeg from a mkv file into images. It's all nice and dandy but it doesn't seem to do subtitles which are in one of the streams in the file.
[09:42] <Fuuzetsu> Is there a way to get the subtitles rendered onto the frame? Googling only brings up same issue without replies or different issues that aren't of help.
[10:57] <IchGuckLive> hi all im getting double file size on ffmpeg -i rio.ts -target pal-dvd output.vob
[10:57] <sacarasc> Hehe, IchGuckLive is watching riots. :D
[10:58] <IchGuckLive> Thanks but this is the command
[10:58] <IchGuckLive> you may want the input  info and output info
[10:58] <IchGuckLive> i think
[10:58] <durandal_1707> i want full uncut output
[11:01] <IchGuckLive> http://pastie.org/6327114
[11:02] <durandal_1707> that is not full uncut command  output
[11:02] <IchGuckLive> durandal_1707: http://g1.globo.com/rio-de-janeiro/carnaval/2013/fotos/2013/02/fotos-desfile-da-unidos-de-vila-isabel.html
[11:05] <IchGuckLive> ok i  did it again and here is the full workflow  http://pastie.org/6327137
[11:06] <IchGuckLive> input is 62MB output 120MB
[11:07] <IchGuckLive> output plays perfect
[11:08] <Fuuzetsu> shouldn't ffmpeg -i file -filter_complex '[0:v][0:s]overlay[v]' -map [v] test.png produce an image with subtitles now visible on the video?
[11:08] <Fuuzetsu> I can't get it to work& I always get just video.
[11:09] <durandal_1707> Fuuzetsu: subtitles with that command?
[11:09] <Fuuzetsu> I have subtitles at 0:2
[11:10] <durandal_1707> IchGuckLive: you are transcoding video, could use -vcodec copy
[11:10] <Fuuzetsu> Stream mapping: Stream #0:0 (h264) -> overlay:main Stream #0:2 (ass) -> overlay:overlay overlay -> Stream #0:0 (png) suggests that it should work
[11:10] <durandal_1707> IchGuckLive: and transcoding audio, dunno if that you want
[11:10] <IchGuckLive> ok
[11:10] <Fuuzetsu> you seem to have joined after I posted my issue& I'll repost (2 lines)
[11:11] <Fuuzetsu> Greetings. I'm attempting to capture certain frames using ffmpeg from a mkv file into images. It's all nice and dandy but it doesn't seem to do subtitles which are in one of the streams in the file.
[11:11] <Fuuzetsu> Is there a way to get the subtitles rendered onto the frame? Googling only brings up same issue without replies or different issues that aren't of help.
[11:13] <IchGuckLive> durandal_1707:  means -vcodec copy -acodec copy ?
[11:14] <durandal_1707> IchGuckLive: dunno, input may be incompatible with pal-dvd target you want
[11:14] <Fjorgynn> -c:v copy -c:a copy ?
[11:14] <durandal_1707> or just -c copy
[11:15] <IchGuckLive> ok
[11:15] <durandal_1707> this should not increase size at all
[11:15] <durandal_1707> but dunno if it will be playable on stuff that expects pal-dvd
[11:17] <durandal_1707> otherwise if size is too big you try to lower quality, again i really do not know what are requirements for pal-dvd, so maybe output you get is expected result
[11:18] <IchGuckLive> thanks
[11:18] <durandal_1707> Fjorgynn: i fail to see how using test.png will burn subtitles
[11:19] <durandal_1707> there are examples on wiki
[11:20] <durandal_1707> https://ffmpeg.org/trac/ffmpeg/wiki/How%20to%20burn%20subtitles%20into%20the%20video
[11:25] <Fuuzetsu> durandal_1707: you meant to highlight me
[11:26] <durandal_1707> yes, fail
[11:26] <Fuuzetsu> I've been staring at that very page for a while now
[11:26] <Fuuzetsu> I don't see how to make the jump from mkv with saa subs embedded into a png
[11:26] <Fuuzetsu> The examples assume I have a subtitle file already and the last one is exactly what I'm doing now.
[11:26] <durandal_1707> so your subtitles in mkv are bitmap?
[11:27] <Fuuzetsu> I get a sub2video: non-bitmap subtitle
[11:27] <Fuuzetsu>     Stream #0:2(eng): Subtitle: ssa (default)
[11:28] <durandal_1707> so you could try ass filter example
[11:29] <durandal_1707> but i guess you need to extract it first from mkv
[11:29] <durandal_1707> because i dunno if there is shorter way
[11:30] <Fuuzetsu> Hmm, I see.
[11:32] <Fuuzetsu> [AVFilterGraph @ 0x82023b0] No such filter: 'ass'
[11:32] <Fuuzetsu> ;_;
[11:32] <durandal_1707> you need build with libass support
[11:33] <Fuuzetsu> Ah, yes, I just noticed that I don't have a USE flag for it
[11:33] <durandal_1707> libass actually renders subtitles for ffmpeg
[11:34] <Fuuzetsu> At least extracting the subtitles doesn't take a long time. I'll be happy to get it working at all.
[11:34] <Fuuzetsu> The night has now turned into 10:30am&
[12:10] <Fuuzetsu> durandal_1707: I got it to work. Thank you so, so, so much.
[12:35] <hendry> how does one convert a Macromedia Flash data (compressed), version 11 to mkv?
[12:36] <hendry> i tried ffmpeg, but i got "could not find codec parameters" as an error
[12:39] <hendry> durandal_1707: http://sprunge.us/KKVV
[12:40] <durandal_1707> hendry: upload file somewhere and post link to it
[12:43] <hendry> durandal_1707: http://s.natalian.org/2013-02-24/test.swf
[12:48] <durandal_1707> hendry: it is some binary stuff it does not have video/audio
[12:50] <Fuuzetsu> When using -ss, the video is properly captured from the time I seek to but the subtitles always start from the beginning. Is there a way to remedy this?
[12:54] <durandal_1707> Fuuzetsu: no yet, because -ss seek mkv only and there is no way to seek with filter
[12:54] <durandal_1707> but you could try to extract subtitle with -ss ....
[12:55] <durandal_1707> or could try to change pts of subtitle packets ....
[12:56] <durandal_1707> ^hmm not possible with subtitle streams
[12:56] <Fuuzetsu> I see. You say no yet though. Does this mean that it's a planned feature?
[12:59] <durandal_1707> maybe, also not need to extract subtitle is even more useful feature
[13:00] <Fuuzetsu> I agree&
[13:00] <durandal_1707> so you could create ticket(s)
[13:00] <durandal_1707> for this of for anything you need and should be present
[13:01] <Fuuzetsu> I might actually do that in a bit. Bed first. Thanks for all the help.
[13:02] <shevy> hmm how many of the people here contribute code to ffmpeg?
[13:03] <Fuuzetsu> I'm guessing anyone who sits around in #ffmpeg-devel
[13:31] <mpfundstein> #join #vlc-devel
[13:34] <Fjorgynn> why?
[13:40] <ubitux> durandal_1707, Fuuzetsu: at least two tickets exists for this
[13:40] <ubitux> but the subtitles injection in lavfi is not simple
[13:49] <ubitux> Fuuzetsu: also, if you're just remuxing subtitles, afaik it works
[13:50] <Fuuzetsu> My ultimate goal is to be able to take screencaps at some intervals.
[13:50] <ubitux> i just checked
[13:51] <ubitux> it works
[13:51] <Fuuzetsu> I clearly don't want to re-encode the whole video just for that purpose
[13:51] <Fuuzetsu> How?
[13:51] <ubitux> i tried ffmpeg -i in.mkv -ss 10:00 -t 3:00 -c copy -map 0 -y out.mkv
[13:51] <ubitux> and it just works
[13:52] <ubitux> i've fixed this a while ago
[13:52] <ubitux> make sure you're up to date
[13:52] <Fuuzetsu> ffmpeg version 1.0.4
[13:52] <Fuuzetsu> built on Feb 24 2013 10:39:56 with gcc 4.6.3 (Gentoo 4.6.3 p1.11, pie-0.5.2)
[13:52] <ubitux> i've fixed this month ago, iirc before 1.0 but i'm not sure
[13:53] <ubitux> you should try git/HEAD or at least 1.1
[13:53] <Fuuzetsu> OK will do
[13:53] <ubitux> if you have an available sample around i can have a look
[13:53] <Fuuzetsu> but are you saying that the subtitles should seek along with the video without any additional magic?
[13:54] <ubitux> yes
[13:54] <Fuuzetsu> I'll try head
[13:54] <ubitux> what doesn't is when you're trying to hardsub subtitles with libavfilter (-vf subtitles=...)
[13:54] <ubitux> in that particular case, the seek won't work
[13:54] <ubitux> otherwise it should
[13:58] <Fuuzetsu> is something horribly wrong with 1.1.x? My distro seems to have it masked
[13:58] <Fuuzetsu> (Gentoo, using portage)
[14:00] <ubitux> the api changes may break some apps built maybe
[14:00] <ubitux> but i'm not a gentoo user, no idea
[14:01] Action: Fuuzetsu prays, gritts teeth and crosses fingers while he starts building
[14:01] <Fuuzetsu> I still haven't recovered from last night breakage
[14:01] <JEEB> when I last looked at gentoo's stuff marked as "stable" I had to laugh :P
[14:02] <JEEB> basically the newest two or three versions of firefox of the current release branch were labled nonstable and thus you can guess which version people set up on "stable" were using :P
[14:02] <JEEB> this was back with 3.6.x or so
[14:02] <Fuuzetsu> JEEB: we're all daredevils on ~
[14:02] <JEEB> tl;dr it really felt like that stamp of "stable" didn't really mean anything >_>
[14:03] <Fuuzetsu> it just tends to mean old and tested
[14:03] <JEEB> yeah, which just got really laughable with a browser that gets security updates :P
[14:05] <Fuuzetsu> Hey, if you want security then you won't be using firefox in the first place
[14:06] <JEEB> if you want security you don't stick your machine into a network
[14:06] <Fuuzetsu> (in fact, if you want securty then it probably will be on a box without a Real Browser")
[14:24] <hendry> I'm trying to limit my capture to 5seconds, but ffmpeg -t 5 -threads auto -f x11grab -s 1366x768 -i :0.0 -f alsa -i hw:0,0 -acodec pcm_s16le -vcodec ffvhuff test.mkv # does not work :/ what am I missing?
[14:25] <Tchico> Hi every body
[14:25] <Tchico> please when you have time, look at my topic on the forum
[14:25] <Tchico> http://ffmpeg.gusari.org/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=840&p=1657#p1657
[14:36] <Keyboard_Warrior> Tchico, take a look at qt-faststart
[14:37] <Keyboard_Warrior> i asume its becasue your mp4's moov-atom is at the end
[14:37] <Keyboard_Warrior> so, you have to download the entire video file before you can play it in the browser
[14:38] <Tchico> thx I will see
[14:38] <Tchico> and test
[14:38] <Keyboard_Warrior> it comes with ffmpeg
[14:38] <Keyboard_Warrior> or can atleast
[14:47] <ubitux> -movflags +faststart
[14:58] <Keyboard_Warrior> ubitux, you can do that these days? :P
[14:58] <Keyboard_Warrior> ubitux, i really should re-learn ffmpeg
[14:58] <ubitux> yes you can
[14:59] <durandal_1707> Keyboard_Warrior: there is documentation
[14:59] <Keyboard_Warrior> durandal_1707, there wasnt much good info back when i was using it
[14:59] <Keyboard_Warrior> 2007ish :P
[14:59] <Keyboard_Warrior> heck, most of the info was even wrong :P
[14:59] <Keyboard_Warrior> well not most
[15:00] <Keyboard_Warrior> but, there were plenty in the official man and help stuff, that was just blatantly wrong
[15:00] <Keyboard_Warrior> durandal_1707, so yeah, im still stuck with how ffmpeg worked in the long long time agoes :P
[15:00] <Keyboard_Warrior> i havent used it at all since 2010 or so
[15:04] <ubitux> the documentation is split and maintained actively, at least for new stuff
[15:04] <ubitux> (this might not have been the case in the past yes)
[15:13] <Tchico> no, qt-faststart don't hlp me :(
[15:13] <Tchico> http://gnagn.olympe.in/nancyCamera.php look with chrome or ie this page you will understand
[15:21] <Tchico> The videos don't load ... but if I put a video of big_bunny or any other mp4 it's works ...
[15:27] <Tchico> I update my post, on the forum: http://ffmpeg.gusari.org/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=840&p=1658#p1658
[15:27] <Tchico> Check when you have time please
[15:31] <ubitux> a little surprising but maybe it only supports a few h264 levels
[15:46] <Tchico> h264 levels ?
[15:46] <Tchico> When I convert a video to a h264 video, it works but not when I create the video from pictures with ffmpeg
[17:17] <Tchico> Anybody here ?
[17:21] <cbsrobot_> show the output for both files please
[17:24] <Tchico> ok
[17:51] <Tchico> this is the encoding of the video from the pictures
[17:51] <Tchico> http://pastebin.com/kAe3R3PY
[17:53] <Tchico> this is the qt-faststart
[17:53] <Tchico> http://pastebin.com/bcRnFEvM
[17:55] <ubitux> SVN-r26402
[17:55] <ubitux> bitch plz
[17:55] <ubitux> :D
[17:55] <ubitux> come on, please upgrade :)
[17:58] <Tchico> ok ^^
[17:58] <cbsrobot_> Tchico: my guess would be yuvj420p is not working on your device, but ubitux is right - please upgrade
[17:59] <cbsrobot_> and btw. next time show the output of the file that works and the file that does not work ....
[17:59] <Tchico> I am encoding the file qhich work
[18:00] <Tchico> still encoding
[18:00] <Tchico> when he finishes I send you his pastebin and go upgrade ffmpeg
[18:00] <cbsrobot_> Tchico: just show the output of: ffmpeg -i file_working.ext
[18:00] <cbsrobot_> and: ffmpeg -i file_not_working.ext
[18:01] <Tchico> oh, ok
[18:01] <Tchico> sorry doesn't know you want that
[18:02] <cbsrobot_> Tchico: well *I* don't want it that badly - but that way you can compare the two files
[18:03] <Tchico> And the pastebin of the file which work: http://pastebin.com/RYcpXyfC
[18:05] <Tchico> the video which normally works, doesn't work this time - -'
[18:06] <Tchico> so I update ffmpeg and I retest
[19:41] <teratorn> can I ask why I see errors about non-monotonically increasing dts when I call av_interleaved_write_frame() ? isn't it the job of the damn interleaving to queue the packets and mux them in dts order?
[19:41] <teratorn> or am I misunderstanding something? :(
[19:57] <spinx60> +history
[19:57] <spinx60> is there a way to see chat history
[19:58] <durandal_1707> spinx60: yes
[19:58] <spinx60> how ? :)
[19:59] <Mavrik> teratorn, it interleaves them over several streams
[19:59] <Mavrik> teratorn, you still have to make sure yourself that DTS increases monotonicaly within a stream
[20:00] <teratorn> Mavrik: aye - I believe I am doing that. the error seems to be because I encode several audio packets very quickly, but my video codec delays several frames before it emits any packets. When I write the first video packet, I get the dts non-monotonically increasing error
[20:01] <teratorn> the error shows it comparing against the latest audio packet
[20:01] <teratorn> the dts's that is
[20:01] <teratorn> I'm not sure what this means. I had the idea that if I just wrote a video packet *first*, then it would queue the audio properly.. but I don't know what is really wrong
[20:01] <Mavrik> teratorn, hmhmhm, that shouldn't happen
[20:02] <Mavrik> teratorn, do your packets have correct stream indexes set?
[20:02] <teratorn> I believe so. I should double check
[20:02] <teratorn> I know that stream_index must be set right.. so I'll double check that
[20:04] <Mavrik> teratorn, also sometimes if DTS difference of audio and video is too big you get there errors
[20:04] <teratorn> ffs. I was setting the audio packets to the video index
[20:04] <teratorn> and I spent already an hour writing a damn type that would queue and interleave the packets to "fix" this error...
[20:04] <Mavrik> been there, done that, killed a day to debug that :P
[20:05] <teratorn> I don't think I was cut out for this kind of work :(
[20:05] <teratorn> timestamps and freaking stream muxing
[20:05] <teratorn> *sigh* - thanks
[20:06] <durandal_1707> spinx60: ffmpeg.org/contact.html
[20:26] <Tchico> a
[20:35] <Tchico> ok
[20:35] <Tchico> ffmpeg upgraded, that's the pastbin of the 2 videos recreated : http://pastebin.com/f8JqkFpH
[20:35] <Tchico> they still don't work :(
[20:39] <durandal_1707> Tchico: what does not work?
[20:44] <Tchico> the video that I create from pictures cant be visible on html5 video balise for chrome and IE
[20:45] <durandal_1707> Tchico: what command you use
[20:46] <Tchico> http://ffmpeg.gusari.org/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=840&p=1661#p1661
[20:46] <Tchico> I put all details in this post
[20:47] <Tchico> ffmpeg -i %d.jpg -vcodec libx264 -preset slow -profile baseline -b 250k -bt 50k -an -g 30 -s 640x360 -r 24 -y res.mp4
[20:48] <Tchico> durandal_1707 : its the new command I use
[20:53] <durandal_1707> and what pix fmt are jpgs?
[20:54] <Tchico> JFIF
[20:55] <durandal_1707> added -movflags +faststart ?
[20:56] <Tchico> when ?
[20:56] <Tchico> I call qt-faststart after on my video
[20:57] <durandal_1707> qt-faststart is not needed, latest ffmpeg can do it itself with above mentioned args
[20:57] <Tchico> I am encoding a video with -movflags +faststart and -threads 0 options
[21:01] <durandal_1707> perhaps something is unexpected
[21:01] <durandal_1707> please post full uncut output of conversion that does not work
[21:04] <Tchico> k
[21:18] <durandal_1707> Tchico: you do not need to wait it to complete
[21:19] <Tchico> ?
[21:19] <durandal_1707> you could also limit it to encode only first 10 sec with -t 10
[21:20] <Tchico> http://pastebin.com/VWUvc3WL
[21:20] <Tchico> thx, next time I will do it ;)
[21:23] <durandal_1707> perhaps you should use -provile:v instead of just -profile
[21:23] <durandal_1707> same for -b:v instead of -b
[21:24] <Tchico> ok, cause its still not working :(
[21:24] <durandal_1707> dunno, maybe it needs audio
[21:25] <Tchico> :(
[21:32] <Tchico> vlc give me no details of the codecs now
[21:36] <foonix> is there a way to compare two inputs ?
[21:36] <foonix> i mean something like psnr
[21:41] <Tchico> I update my post: http://ffmpeg.gusari.org/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=840&p=1666#p1666 if someone have an idea :(
[21:51] <Tchico> I have a good news :) it's working on IE :) but still not in chrome - -'
[22:02] <tbo> I compiled ffmpeg git today and vda_h264 is no longer being included? intentional?
[22:11] <tbo> --enable-vda to the ffmpeg configure fixed it, just weird that it needed that
[22:12] <Fjorgynn> night
[22:18] <ubitux> tbo: http://git.videolan.org/?p=ffmpeg.git;a=commitdiff;h=dbabea2f23782c09106765a6791a38f6e52fc7fd
[22:18] <tbo> ah okay, thanks
[22:18] <ubitux> sorry about that :)
[22:19] <tbo> np, I had to change the homebrew formular and compile it again.
[22:19] <tbo> hwaccel is annoying anyway
[22:29] <Jiyuu|Alt> can anyone help me figure out why ffmpeg is crashing for me whenever i try to encode to h264
[22:30] <Jiyuu|Alt> ffmpeg  -i "video.mkv" -c:v h264 -c:a copy -s 800:480  output4.mp4
[22:31] <JEEB> is it crashing or just telling you that there is no such encoder?
[22:31] <JEEB> h264 is just a decoder in libavcodec, the only H.264 encoder in libavcodec is libx264
[22:31] <Jiyuu|Alt> crash
[22:31] <Jiyuu|Alt> im on win 64 btw
[22:31] <Jiyuu|Alt> in case its a problem
[22:32] <Jiyuu|Alt> my mistake
[22:32] <JEEB> hm?
[22:32] <Jiyuu|Alt> ffmpeg  -i "video.mkv" -c:v h264 -c:a copy -s 800:480  output4.mp4
[22:32] <Jiyuu|Alt> ah
[22:32] <Jiyuu|Alt> i did copy correctly
[22:32] <Jiyuu|Alt> nvm
[22:32] <Jiyuu|Alt> anyway
[22:32] <JEEB> hmm, reminds me of a bug that was around for a moment for win64 and H.264 decoding
[22:32] <Jiyuu|Alt> yeah its still crashing
[22:33] <ubitux> it's not supposed to
[22:33] <Jiyuu|Alt> should i try win32
[22:33] <JEEB> ubitux, wasn't there some red zone thingy regarding H.264 decoding lately?
[22:33] <Jiyuu|Alt> would there be any diff as far as performance goes?
[22:33] <JEEB> on win64
[22:33] <ubitux> JEEB: maybe, i'm not following this stuff
[22:33] <JEEB> Jiyuu|Alt, nothing too big, a few % I would guess
[22:33] <JEEB> I remember BBB pushing a fix for it
[22:33] <ubitux> Jiyuu|Alt: is this a recent ffmpeg anyway?
[22:33] <ubitux> JEEB: same here
[22:34] <ubitux> 82a4a4e7 too
[22:34] <Jiyuu|Alt> ok it is working with win32
[22:34] <JEEB> then it's most probably that if the build is new
[22:34] <ubitux> make sure you have a recent version of ffmpeg
[22:35] <JEEB> (or well, relatively new)
[22:35] <ubitux> (basically git/master/HEAD)
[22:35] <Jiyuu|Alt> http://ffmpeg.zeranoe.com/builds/
[22:36] <Jiyuu|Alt> Download FFmpeg git-066739f 64-bit Static
[22:37] <JEEB> if you do ffmpeg -i input.mkv -c:v rawvideo -f null NUL , does it still crash?
[22:41] <Jiyuu|Alt> i can encode to mpeg4 at least
[22:41] <Jiyuu|Alt> could
[22:41] <JEEB> interesting
[22:41] <JEEB> x264 should haven't any problems with its current normal source tree on win64
[22:41] <JEEB> what if you use the proper encoder name libx264 instead of h264?
[22:42] <Jiyuu|Alt> tried it and also crashed
[22:42] <Jiyuu|Alt> it does detect the codec btw
[22:42] <JEEB> k
[22:42] <Jiyuu|Alt> one sec
[22:42] <Jiyuu|Alt> i'll show you the log
[22:43] <JEEB> yeah, ffmpeg nowadays probably has a way of going from "h264" on the encoding side to libx264
[22:43] <JEEB> just like "aac" goes to one of the aac encoders available in the build
[22:43] <JEEB> so yeah, seems like zeranoe failed at building 64bit x264?
[22:46] <Jiyuu|Alt> http://pastebin.com/8WRwEhGb
[22:48] <JEEB> if you wanna see where it exactly crashes
[22:48] <JEEB> http://x264.fushizen.eu/builds/gdb/gdb-7.5.7z
[22:48] <JEEB> grab this
[22:49] <JEEB> then use the 64bit gdb like this: "gdb ffmpeg.exe"
[22:49] <JEEB> although wait... that thing probably doesn't contain symbols ^^;
[22:54] <Jiyuu|Alt> gdb works on windows? lol
[22:58] <JEEB> yeah
[23:03] <elkng> there are 3 formats of the same video on youtube flv,mp4,webm and they are all of "640x360" resolution, which one should be in better quality ?
[23:03] <elkng> flv ?
[23:03] <durandal_1707> higher bitrate
[23:04] <durandal_1707> or actually visually inspecting output
[23:07] <Tchico> Now I have a picture on IE
[23:07] <Tchico> only one picture of all video, but he recognise the format
[23:48] <ezekiel> unexpected breakthrough today with synchronized audio+video capture with ffmpeg from git, any devs feel free to tell me if this is expected behavior:
[23:48] <ezekiel> ffmpeg -y -f video4linux2 -i /dev/video0 -f alsa -i hw:CARD=U0x46d0x821,DEV=0 ~/tmp/output-file.mp4  #results in out-of sync audio/video
[23:49] <ezekiel> ffmpeg -y -f alsa -i hw:CARD=U0x46d0x821,DEV=0 -f video4linux2 -i /dev/video0 ~/tmp/output-file.mp4  #results in in-sync audio/video
[23:49] <ezekiel> so - just changing the order of the inputs fixes audio sync - is that expected?
[00:00] --- Mon Feb 25 2013


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