[Ffmpeg-devel-irc] ffmpeg-devel.log.20150801

burek burek021 at gmail.com
Sun Aug 2 02:05:03 CEST 2015

[00:08:50 CEST] <nevcairiel> I cant say I have much experience with any of those review tools, I used the one from the atlassian suite at work for a bit but I didn't really like it that much
[00:09:14 CEST] <jamrial> BtbN: if you check the mailman archives for the email in question you can click on the sender's address which is a mailto: link with the id of the email embedded
[00:09:28 CEST] <nevcairiel> But obviously any workflow we use should satisfy two basic requirements. 1) Easy to submit patches, 2) Easy to review/get feedback
[00:09:59 CEST] <nevcairiel> Just from years of watching ffmpeg-devel, ML doesn't really fullfil (1)
[00:10:08 CEST] <nevcairiel> people struggle way too o ften with git and patch sending =p
[00:10:26 CEST] <BtbN> well, new devs struggling with git won't change
[00:10:35 CEST] <BtbN> jamrial, good to know, thanks
[00:11:39 CEST] <nevcairiel>  I suppose one of those tools that sits on top of the ML and manages patch sets could maybe satisfy (2), but since people do struggle with patches and mail, those tools often get confused
[00:11:56 CEST] <nevcairiel> so some integrated solution that somehow does both better would be something worth thinking about
[00:12:12 CEST] <BtbN> Can't reviewboard/gerrit automaticaly import patch-mails?
[00:12:32 CEST] <Shiz> phabricator is not fantastic from my experience
[00:12:57 CEST] <nevcairiel> like i said such tools exist, but there is often manual labor involved because people mess up references in the mails and break threads and whatnot
[00:12:59 CEST] <Shiz> another option is hooking up github issues to an ML
[00:13:12 CEST] <Shiz> and have bidirectional sync
[00:13:25 CEST] <BtbN> There definitely won't be an imediate switch, but not doing anything won't be one at all.
[00:15:04 CEST] <peloverde> does gerrit offer a lighter comment comment system than the one used by chromium's instance?
[01:41:43 CEST] <andrewrk> philipl, what's wrong with github PRs?  (I'm not defending them, just didn't know of any problems and curious)
[01:50:11 CEST] <cone-377> ffmpeg 03Ihar A. Tumashyk 07master:293e25be615d: libavcodec/utils: av_get_exact_bits_per_sample fixed to return "1" for DSD codecs.
[02:23:57 CEST] <cone-377> ffmpeg 03Yu Xiaolei 07master:2ef6994ef635: avcodec/libx264: expose nv21 input support
[02:30:33 CEST] <Plorkyeran> github PRs aren't *terrible*, but they're about as feature-light as you can get and still be usable for code review as long as you structure your workflow around what they support
[02:30:56 CEST] <Plorkyeran> so people who have used better code review tools tend to dislike github's
[02:33:53 CEST] <BtbN> they are quite accesible though, getting used to gerrit takes a while
[02:56:40 CEST] <cone-377> ffmpeg 03Rostislav Pehlivanov 07master:6d175158e914: aacenc: remove redundant argument from coder functions
[03:18:45 CEST] <kierank> peloverde: so atomnuker thinks his patches will beat dolby... :)
[03:18:50 CEST] <kierank> in aac encoding
[03:20:13 CEST] <peloverde> cool
[03:20:36 CEST] <atomnuker> subjectively
[03:20:45 CEST] <atomnuker> key word here, subjectively
[03:22:56 CEST] <Compn> there was software to check if a patch posted to ml was applied or lost
[03:23:07 CEST] <Compn> someone ran it over the ffmpeg archives once and did a statistic
[03:23:17 CEST] <Compn> some kind of research thesis for university
[03:23:25 CEST] <Compn> dont remember the name though
[03:24:02 CEST] <cone-377> ffmpeg 03Stephan Holljes 07master:cf6c871beec9: lavf/network: split ff_listen_bind into ff_listen and ff_accept
[03:24:03 CEST] <cone-377> ffmpeg 03Stephan Holljes 07master:5125e4b53f71: lavf/avio: add ffurl_accept and ffurl_handshake
[03:24:04 CEST] <cone-377> ffmpeg 03Stephan Holljes 07master:63c07a956bb2: lavf/avio: add avio_accept and avio_handshake
[03:24:05 CEST] <cone-377> ffmpeg 03Stephan Holljes 07master:21198155a79a: lavf/tcp: add tcp_accept
[03:24:06 CEST] <cone-377> ffmpeg 03Stephan Holljes 07master:75235a25506c: lavf/tcp: increase range for listen and call the underlying socket operations accordingly
[03:24:07 CEST] <cone-377> ffmpeg 03Stephan Holljes 07master:3240e69de6d3: lavf/http: Implement server side network code.
[03:24:08 CEST] <cone-377> ffmpeg 03Stephan Holljes 07master:1d46e0ee051a: doc/protocols: document experimental mutli-client api
[03:24:09 CEST] <cone-377> ffmpeg 03Stephan Holljes 07master:25410c524dde: doc/example: Add http multi-client example code
[03:24:10 CEST] <cone-377> ffmpeg 03Michael Niedermayer 07master:55ea31ab8981: Merge branch 'simple_http_server_api_implementation' of http://git.klaxa.eu/git/ffmpeg
[03:39:11 CEST] <cone-377> ffmpeg 03Michael Niedermayer 07master:b27d4fd99736: Revert "libavcodec/utils: av_get_exact_bits_per_sample fixed to return "1" for DSD codecs."
[11:19:34 CEST] <ubitux> if anyone is feeling that sharing http://ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2015-August/176556.html might be relevant on libav side, please do so
[11:19:43 CEST] <ubitux> if you think it will bring troubles, then don't
[11:20:22 CEST] <nevcairiel> for reasons, your mail didnt arrive in my mailbox
[11:20:30 CEST] <ubitux> i just sent it
[11:20:40 CEST] <nevcairiel> mail is usually pretty instant
[11:20:46 CEST] <nevcairiel> but probably still in a spam filter somewhere
[11:20:49 CEST] <ubitux> :(
[11:20:54 CEST] <nevcairiel> ah there it is
[11:20:58 CEST] <nevcairiel> analysis takes a while, you know
[11:21:14 CEST] <ubitux> :)
[11:43:27 CEST] Action: rcombs off to register #MultimediaDrama-devel
[11:46:39 CEST] <rcombs> I've never been a fan of "libav" as a name because the project also incorporates several tools that aren't libraries, though "ffmpeg" is kinda silly at this day in age too, since "mpeg" only applies to a small portion of the code these days and I had to look up what "FF" stands for here
[11:46:56 CEST] <rcombs> but on the other hand, it's an established name
[11:48:15 CEST] <rcombs> but I'm putting the cart before the horse by even talking about naming before anyone's even come to an agreement on whether or not a reunification will happen
[11:48:37 CEST] <nevcairiel> Realistically, I'm not seeing it happen
[11:48:40 CEST] <nevcairiel> but we can hope
[11:52:13 CEST] <rcombs> I haven't even see any priorities/expectations/conditions/whatever from any of the libav guys
[11:53:48 CEST] <ubitux> they expressed some yesterday on their channels
[11:53:55 CEST] <ubitux> but give them some time
[11:54:12 CEST] <rcombs> yeah, obviously this won't be over in a day
[11:55:15 CEST] <rcombs> ubitux: also, I'd imagine you've noticed that you're acting like a de-facto ffmpeg "leader" at the moment
[11:56:52 CEST] Action: wm4 prostrates before ubitux
[11:57:21 CEST] Action: rcombs performs a zigzag salute
[11:57:26 CEST] <relaxed> if the shoe fits, wear it
[11:57:45 CEST] <rcombs> it seems like the consensus is that we shouldn't really need one of those going forwards, though
[11:58:19 CEST] <nevcairiel> that depends entirely if we manage to agree on something that works without
[11:58:25 CEST] <ubitux> lol
[11:58:33 CEST] <ubitux> alright i'm going back to playing counter strike then
[11:58:50 CEST] <rcombs> do enjoy
[11:59:03 CEST] <nevcairiel> we need to be able to make majority decisions without a single developer blocking everything, otherwise a leader is needed to unblock such things
[11:59:33 CEST] <rcombs> what does libav do?
[11:59:58 CEST] <nevcairiel> dunno, dont think i've seen them have an argument like that before
[12:00:09 CEST] <nevcairiel> they seem mostly ambivalent what the others do =p
[12:00:51 CEST] <rcombs> what, they just work on a software project instead of having ML and IRC arguments?
[12:00:56 CEST] <rcombs> where do they get their drama, then?
[12:01:30 CEST] <nevcairiel> tv?
[12:01:31 CEST] <nevcairiel> i dunno
[12:01:32 CEST] <wm4> getting upset over hn posts
[12:01:37 CEST] <rcombs> huh
[12:02:27 CEST] <rcombs> though obviously that TV viewing is done using libavcodec
[12:02:36 CEST] <nevcairiel> there are discussions of course, but it mostly just ends with one side easily giving up, so no deadlocks
[12:02:59 CEST] <nevcairiel> (or more accurately, giving in)
[12:03:25 CEST] <rcombs> people are more interested in the advancement of the greater project than their own minor concerns?
[12:04:47 CEST] <rcombs> I don't actually keep enough track of the ffmpeg ML to know much about the internal drama
[12:07:58 CEST] <durandal_1707> ubitux: stop playing games, go finish selectivecolor and nlmeans!
[12:08:38 CEST] <ubitux> durandal_1707 :(
[12:08:41 CEST] <ubitux> alright alright
[12:13:40 CEST] <durandal_1707> you can play games instead of posting on that channel :-/
[12:16:08 CEST] <durandal_1707> michaelni still cares for security issues that get reported?
[14:13:44 CEST] <michaelni> durandal_1707, is there any new security issue that needs attention ?
[14:16:06 CEST] <durandal_1707> I dunno I'm just asking are you still doing that kind of job...
[14:17:39 CEST] <michaelni> if someone reports a sec issue to me, yes i would try to look into it
[14:38:33 CEST] <blue112> Hi here. Is this the good place for talking about trying to compile libav with mvsc ?
[14:40:52 CEST] <Compn> no, #ffmpeg is better place
[14:41:01 CEST] <Compn> this channel is only if you are developing some code in ffmpeg
[14:41:14 CEST] <Compn> or fixing some msvc ffmpeg bug
[14:41:21 CEST] <nevcairiel> the process should be adequately documented however
[14:41:53 CEST] <blue112> Ok, I'm going there then, thanks.
[15:11:28 CEST] <kierank> ubitux: so much for community statements then :(
[16:02:35 CEST] <ubitux> kierank: sorry?
[16:02:58 CEST] <kierank> we wrote a community statement on etherpad yesterday
[16:16:50 CEST] <ubitux> kierank: oh, i missed that, sorry
[16:18:19 CEST] <durandal_1707> link?
[16:18:51 CEST] <ubitux> https://etherpad.mozilla.org/Cem9NXUdZw
[16:19:44 CEST] <ubitux> i have very high doubt that VDD is going to solve anything in itself
[16:20:11 CEST] <ubitux> it seems to be again sold as the holy grail, but whatever
[16:20:15 CEST] <kierank> probably but it avoids flames on HN and reddit
[16:20:35 CEST] <kierank> HN is definitely not the place to have this flame
[16:20:43 CEST] <kierank> and neither side is going to go on the others ml
[16:20:45 CEST] <nevcairiel> HN isnt the place for anything =p
[16:21:55 CEST] <kierank> ubitux: it's not the holy grail but it's the only neutral venue
[16:22:16 CEST] <ubitux> not really
[16:22:27 CEST] <ubitux> it just feels like spectacle
[16:22:50 CEST] <kierank> what other neutral venues are there?
[16:23:09 CEST] <kierank> vdd is the least worst place
[16:23:36 CEST] <ubitux> problems came up online, i don't see why they can't be solved online
[16:23:52 CEST] <kierank> but where?
[16:23:54 CEST] <kierank> HN?
[16:23:59 CEST] <kierank> with all the neckbeards?
[16:24:00 CEST] <ubitux> another irc channel, whatever
[16:24:17 CEST] <kierank> remember the joint ML idea?
[16:24:21 CEST] <kierank> how badly that went
[16:24:28 CEST] <ubitux> it didn't went badly
[16:24:36 CEST] <ubitux> just nothing happened
[16:24:43 CEST] <kierank> erm. you forget the massive flames
[16:24:55 CEST] <ubitux> not really
[16:25:15 CEST] <ubitux> we've been asked for an irc meeting several times you know
[16:25:26 CEST] <durandal_1707> the others do not want to see michaelni in any role, even as just contributor
[16:25:35 CEST] <kierank> doubt that
[16:25:57 CEST] <ubitux> durandal_1707: we don't know, that's the point of gathering expectations
[16:26:28 CEST] <durandal_1707> I just read what they wrote
[16:26:31 CEST] <wm4> huh, so there was a joint ml?
[16:26:36 CEST] <ubitux> without an honest list from both side, VDD is really going to feel like we are going to accept a whim from libav
[16:26:45 CEST] <ubitux> but whatever
[16:27:03 CEST] <ubitux> wm4: no, but we tried to suggest the idea, remember?
[16:27:16 CEST] <ubitux> like a mail or something was sent to both ml
[16:27:21 CEST] <wm4> yeah
[16:27:25 CEST] <wm4> but that was chaos anyway
[16:27:41 CEST] <ubitux> not what i remember of it but ok
[16:28:05 CEST] <durandal_1707> who is going to do merges? If nobody I will do cherry picks or even commit directly
[16:28:35 CEST] <ubitux> durandal_1707: i'd like to keep going the way it was done so far until we decide what to do
[16:29:05 CEST] <durandal_1707> currently nothing is done
[16:29:20 CEST] <ubitux> i mean, just making sure git log ..libav/master --oneline keep track of the difference
[16:29:31 CEST] <ubitux> so far very few commits
[16:29:34 CEST] <nevcairiel> I offered to look into doing them, since I do believe its a good idea to keep them doing, but I don't currently have push access, nor is there consensus i guess
[16:29:38 CEST] <ubitux> i think the next one in queue requires to sync samples
[16:30:13 CEST] <wm4> nevcairiel: send mini a ssh key
[16:30:35 CEST] <durandal_1707> public key
[16:31:00 CEST] <nevcairiel> and yeah i also dont have access to upload fate samples
[16:31:12 CEST] <nevcairiel> as ubitux points out, the next one needs new ones
[16:31:19 CEST] <ubitux> durandal_1707: so yeah, someone needs to sync some mp3-conformance samples before merging 
[16:31:37 CEST] <ubitux> iirc
[16:31:40 CEST] <durandal_1707> I don't have access
[16:32:06 CEST] <ubitux> or maybe it was actually merged, dunno
[16:32:16 CEST] <ubitux> yeah no it's not
[16:32:21 CEST] <ubitux> just done locally
[16:32:24 CEST] <ubitux> :p
[16:33:06 CEST] <nevcairiel> yeah the new ssamples are not on fate rsync yet
[16:33:09 CEST] <nevcairiel> i checked
[16:34:16 CEST] <nevcairiel> I guess I should send a mail to the ML to offer to keep those merges going, even if maybe not as fast as michael used to do them
[16:34:24 CEST] <nevcairiel> assuming access is given etc
[16:36:52 CEST] <michaelni> if anyone needs git or shell access, send me your ssh key
[16:39:23 CEST] <cousin_luigi> michaelni: Hello, I just wanted to thank you for your work and your availability.
[16:39:38 CEST] <cousin_luigi> I heard about the recent decision. Best wishes for the future.
[16:40:50 CEST] <michaelni> cousin_luigi, thx
[16:44:15 CEST] <ubitux> rcombs: so, are you going to push that srt patch?
[16:47:40 CEST] <michaelni> durandal_1707, ive added your pub ssh key from git to the server you should be able to login and also change/add samples & fate samples
[16:48:42 CEST] <michaelni> nevcairiel, can you send me your key ?
[16:48:52 CEST] <nevcairiel> sure
[16:48:59 CEST] <nevcairiel> i'll mail it i guess, might be too long for irc
[16:49:05 CEST] <michaelni> ok
[16:50:14 CEST] <nevcairiel> should be on its way
[16:57:31 CEST] <michaelni> nevcairiel, added to git, can you confirm that it works (i did copy and paste from mutt inline mail so i might have gotten a char wrong)
[16:58:55 CEST] <nevcairiel> seems to work
[17:01:48 CEST] <nevcairiel> thanks
[17:03:16 CEST] <michaelni> also added a ssh account with access to samples & fate samples for you
[17:04:57 CEST] <nevcairiel> whats the username on those?
[17:05:18 CEST] <michaelni> nevcairiel
[17:05:28 CEST] <nevcairiel> thats easy to remember
[17:05:30 CEST] <nevcairiel> thats my name
[17:05:40 CEST] <michaelni> :)
[17:06:38 CEST] <michaelni> if anyone else needs access, please ping me
[17:06:55 CEST] <nevcairiel> it works, thanks
[17:09:19 CEST] <Daemon404> man i chose a bad week to go on vacation...
[17:09:38 CEST] <Daemon404> has any kind of thing been decided WRT merges?
[17:10:37 CEST] <nevcairiel> i just sent a mail to offer to keep doing them until the collective decides otherwise
[17:11:26 CEST] <kierank> Daemon404: lol
[17:11:58 CEST] <BtbN> nevcairiel, +1 from me for that.
[17:14:18 CEST] <Daemon404> nevcairiel, ok. i am sure i can help if you are away or w/e.
[17:14:27 CEST] <Daemon404> mind you im right in the middle of vacation atm
[17:14:34 CEST] <Daemon404> only found out cause of hacker news
[17:14:38 CEST] <nevcairiel> i should go on vacation
[17:14:42 CEST] <nevcairiel> havent really had any this year yet
[17:16:38 CEST] <nevcairiel> in any case, I uploaded the new mp3 fate refs so they can sync around the world until the merge thing is confirmed
[17:18:06 CEST] <BBB> nevcairiel: cool, ty
[17:18:18 CEST] <michaelni> +1
[17:19:45 CEST] <BBB> so michaelni, are you actually taking a vacation now? I dont believe it
[17:20:28 CEST] <BBB> I bet youre writing something
[17:20:38 CEST] <BBB> (good choice btw!)
[18:44:41 CEST] <cone-494> ffmpeg 03Rostislav Pehlivanov 07master:ec2090d21f54: aacenc: add description to the 'aac_coder' option
[18:45:02 CEST] <lglinskih_> kierank: hi! did you see my patch on ml? 
[18:45:22 CEST] <kierank> lglinskih_: hi
[18:45:23 CEST] <kierank> yes
[18:45:25 CEST] <kierank> let me look
[18:46:08 CEST] <kierank> looks ok to me
[18:46:13 CEST] <kierank> not sure if wm4 has comments
[18:47:23 CEST] <wm4> what
[18:47:46 CEST] <wm4> also I just had my first user asking about xvmc support
[18:48:22 CEST] <BtbN> that still exists?
[18:48:28 CEST] <BtbN> Isn't that the broken stuff fglrx uses?
[18:50:04 CEST] <iive> no, fglrx one is called XvBA
[18:50:05 CEST] <beastd> BtbN: Why would you necesarrily connect xvmc to fglrx?  I for sure used it without fglrx...
[18:50:16 CEST] <BtbN> i can't think of any other driver that needs it
[18:50:19 CEST] <iive> xvmc is provided by nvidia and mesa-gallium
[18:50:43 CEST] <BtbN> ah, yes. XvBA is what I was thinking about.
[18:55:33 CEST] <BBB> michaelni: any experienced dev working on jpeg2k would be fantastic, that decoder has been not-quite-perfect for ages, and needs something like what you+mike/etc did for h264 trying to get all conformance samples to work
[18:56:33 CEST] <Daemon404> BBB, conformance is one thing... iirc we actually just refuse to decode 4k j2k
[18:56:40 CEST] <Daemon404> which makes it useless for DCP
[18:56:58 CEST] <nevcairiel> i think dcp actually worked, but only the limited dcp profile, not generic 4k j2k
[18:57:09 CEST] <nevcairiel> but its way slow in any case
[18:57:35 CEST] <JEEB> tears of steel master played at least
[18:57:39 CEST] <JEEB> lavf+mpv
[18:57:43 CEST] <JEEB> slow as molasses, yes
[18:59:53 CEST] <ubitux> as long as gif 4k decoding is fast, who cares
[19:01:05 CEST] <nevcairiel> go away
[19:01:09 CEST] <nevcairiel> you enabler of evil :(
[19:01:40 CEST] <Daemon404> nevcairiel, i would be happy if i could even just transcode 4k
[19:01:45 CEST] <Daemon404> to something playable
[19:01:51 CEST] <Daemon404> does it perhaps work with an external decoder
[19:01:55 CEST] <Daemon404> like libopenjpeg or w/e
[19:02:01 CEST] <nevcairiel> openjpeg if anything yeah
[19:02:09 CEST] <nevcairiel> did you try after all the recent work on j2k?
[19:02:22 CEST] <Daemon404> hmmm havent for about a year or two
[19:02:23 CEST] <JEEB> yeah, after I updated lavc j2k the tears of steel thing started working
[19:02:29 CEST] <Daemon404> at the time it just said "lol your res is too big, go away"
[19:02:31 CEST] <JEEB> it's just slow, but it seems correct
[19:02:41 CEST] <JEEB> before that it decoded, but was corrupt
[19:41:11 CEST] <cone-494> ffmpeg 03Paul B Mahol 07master:5bf8590d6e76: avfilter/avf_showvolume: stop making output fully transparent
[20:07:29 CEST] <BBB> Im happy to optimize
[20:07:38 CEST] <BBB> but as long as its not decoding compliant, theres nothing to optimize
[20:08:26 CEST] <durandal_1707> BBB: optimize vf_deband?
[20:08:51 CEST] <BBB> fix all files in the conformance suite
[20:09:26 CEST] <nevcairiel> durandal_1707: j2k
[20:11:11 CEST] <durandal_1707> I know, I just trying someone to write asm
[20:11:33 CEST] <durandal_1707> for lavfi
[20:14:08 CEST] <j-b> and there is all the patches of Buxiness on jp2k that were never merged
[20:15:01 CEST] <j-b> and this alloed me to decode the 1080p version on a big laptop without too much hassle
[20:15:09 CEST] <lglinskih_> kierank: oh, I didn't see your last messages. What should I do next? New tests or upgrade my previous tests on more cases and codecs?
[20:16:52 CEST] <kierank> I think extend existing tests now
[20:18:32 CEST] <BBB> durandal_1707: I wrote ssim/psnr simd
[20:18:51 CEST] <BBB> j-b: link? I can review if that needs doing
[20:19:29 CEST] <BBB> I certainly do think companies with a coprorate interest in j2k should sponsor this kind of work, its ridiculous that most corporate j2k solutions go for millions and they expect us to do this work for free (for them!)
[20:19:44 CEST] <j-b> BBB: it was 2 years ago
[20:20:10 CEST] <durandal_1707> BBB: I know, never enough simd
[20:20:33 CEST] <j-b> BBB: he is finishing the PhD in September, but I called him last week, and he could rebase them, if there is interest.
[20:20:51 CEST] <durandal_1707> I should really start learning it
[20:23:49 CEST] <j-b> Hey, btw, did you publish that etherpad on ffmpeg.org?
[20:24:02 CEST] <j-b> (very slow network here, IRC is all I got)
[20:24:43 CEST] <BBB> j-b: link to old patches?
[20:24:47 CEST] <BBB> Id like to see what it was
[20:25:20 CEST] <j-b> BBB: can I do that on Monday, please?
[20:25:26 CEST] <BBB> of course
[20:25:33 CEST] <j-b> I'll add this to the top of my Monday Todolist?
[20:25:33 CEST] <BBB> ty
[20:25:35 CEST] <j-b> deal?
[20:25:39 CEST] <BBB> middle is ok
[20:25:47 CEST] <BBB> :-p
[20:25:57 CEST] <j-b> BBB: you don't want to be in the middle
[20:26:05 CEST] <BBB> oh one of these todo lists
[20:26:10 CEST] <BBB> I have a couple of them too
[20:26:12 CEST] <j-b> middle is roughly in 3 weeks
[20:26:21 CEST] <BBB> they tend to live in ~/Projects/ffmpeg/TODO and so on
[20:26:23 CEST] <j-b> anyway, I got to go
[20:26:26 CEST] <BBB> bye!
[20:26:38 CEST] <j-b> but you should really publish your etherpad on the website
[20:26:40 CEST] <j-b> bye!
[20:26:54 CEST] <kierank> who can edit ffmpeg.org?
[20:27:22 CEST] <BtbN> propably root
[20:27:29 CEST] <BtbN> whoever that is right now
[20:27:54 CEST] <kierank> ubitux: ping
[20:29:24 CEST] <kierank> Compn: ping
[20:31:14 CEST] <BBB> isnt anyone who commits to ffmpeg-web an editor of ffmpeg.org?
[20:31:58 CEST] <beastd> kierank, BtbN: what BBB said (no need for root (usually))
[20:32:55 CEST] <kierank> ok I will write a patch
[20:34:19 CEST] <kierank> I'll send the etherpad to the ml first
[20:38:17 CEST] <ubitux> kierank: pong
[20:38:25 CEST] <kierank> ubitux: see ml
[20:38:53 CEST] <kierank> basically we (me, j-b, wm4 etc) think our etherpad should be published on ffmpeg.org
[20:38:54 CEST] <kierank> https://etherpad.mozilla.org/Cem9NXUdZw
[20:41:04 CEST] <ubitux> not sure what's this public forum is about
[20:41:15 CEST] <BBB> blogs
[20:41:19 CEST] <BBB> gentoo/debian mls
[20:41:22 CEST] <BBB> lwn comments
[20:41:31 CEST] <BBB> and lots and lots of irc yanking
[20:41:32 CEST] <kierank> hacker news
[20:41:33 CEST] <kierank> reddit
[20:41:35 CEST] <ubitux> but again i don't like the sound of this vdd as a messy; it would be relevant to say that this reconciliation process has already started
[20:41:51 CEST] <BBB> theres a ffmpeg reddit?
[20:41:58 CEST] <kierank> no but there has been trolls in the past iirc
[20:42:09 CEST] <kierank> it's top on /r/programming right now
[20:42:14 CEST] <BBB> great
[20:42:45 CEST] <kierank> ubitux: can you change the wording please?
[20:42:48 CEST] <ubitux> (and i don't think any IRL can be neutral, because it gives a huge advantage to good talkers)
[20:43:10 CEST] <kierank> as i said, it's the least worst place as history shows
[20:43:57 CEST] <ubitux> i disagree
[20:44:05 CEST] <ubitux> i personally see vdd as a huge concession, but well
[20:44:24 CEST] <wm4> how so?
[20:44:25 CEST] <ubitux> but i'm just a single dev, so whatever
[20:44:58 CEST] <ubitux> wm4: because this irl meeting is just a whim from libav folks for years
[20:45:23 CEST] <wm4> kierank: the text still says "michael's resignation _today_"
[20:45:26 CEST] <ubitux> (and i hate real life contacts as i already expressed)
[20:46:53 CEST] <kierank> ubitux: is that better?
[20:47:51 CEST] <ubitux> yeah it's fine 
[20:47:54 CEST] <BBB> Isn't VP8/9 a subset of Daala? Perhaps I'm confused.
[20:47:55 CEST] <BBB> omg
[20:48:01 CEST] <ubitux> haha BBB 
[20:48:03 CEST] <JEEB> lol
[20:48:05 CEST] <BBB> /r/programming quality of comments is & 
[20:48:09 CEST] <BBB> I have no words for it
[20:48:20 CEST] <BBB> speechless
[20:48:57 CEST] <Shiz> it's /r/programming quality
[20:49:04 CEST] <ubitux> try to explain them how VP8 is actually GIFv after that
[20:49:12 CEST] <ubitux> (or the other way around)
[20:50:18 CEST] <wm4> I've stopped going there long ago because everyone was so retarded
[20:50:49 CEST] <wm4> I used to defend ffmpeg or libav there once
[20:51:14 CEST] <kierank> ubitux: the problem is exactly how you said. everyone on HN etc is doing a godwin
[20:51:21 CEST] <kierank> whereas most people don't care any more
[20:51:29 CEST] <wm4> and hn doesn't seem much better
[20:51:29 CEST] <kierank> but then people just think ffmpeg cares about godwin
[20:51:34 CEST] <kierank> because that's all they read about
[20:51:58 CEST] <ubitux> i never suggested to have a discussion on HN, reddit or /. you know
[20:52:12 CEST] <kierank> ubitux: well that's how it happened
[20:52:28 CEST] <kierank> and it makes us all look nuts
[20:52:46 CEST] <ubitux> i suggested an irc channel, but it seems to much simple to move people around the globe that doing a /join for whatever reason
[20:52:57 CEST] <ubitux> s/to much/so much/
[20:53:43 CEST] <kierank> yes but we need a statement imo
[20:53:45 CEST] <durandal_1707> which irc channel?
[20:53:51 CEST] <kierank> otherwise we just let HN take over the news
[20:54:15 CEST] <ubitux> durandal_1707: i don't know, whatever #libavffmpeg2015, who cares
[20:54:32 CEST] <ubitux> opened by a neutral party who is op 
[20:54:35 CEST] <jamrial> ubitux: what better idea than to put a bunch of introverts in a room and ask them to agree on something? :p
[20:54:38 CEST] <durandal_1707> libvas
[20:54:43 CEST] <ubitux> who will voice and unvoice ppl and that's it
[20:55:16 CEST] <kierank> dunno how that works
[20:55:20 CEST] <wm4> ubitux: one issue is that you can get people to join that, most likely
[20:55:22 CEST] <kierank> how do you know when someone wants to speak
[20:55:24 CEST] <ubitux> /mode +v, /mode -v
[20:55:28 CEST] <ubitux> no i mean
[20:55:28 CEST] <wm4> with VDD it seems people are coming anyway?
[20:55:36 CEST] <wm4> at least some people
[20:55:38 CEST] <ubitux> kierank: you do it when someone is annoying
[20:56:12 CEST] <kierank> I've seen enough times ffmpeg and libav people are on irc to know that's bad
[20:56:16 CEST] <ubitux> wm4: what makes you think they are comfortable talking irl?
[20:56:50 CEST] <wm4> I have no idea, but it seems worth a try
[20:56:54 CEST] <ubitux> as i said many times, IRL talks are for me a huge threat
[20:56:58 CEST] <wm4> other methods didn't work either
[20:57:21 CEST] <ubitux> wm4: because not enough people tried
[20:57:29 CEST] <kierank> really?
[20:57:32 CEST] <kierank> we tried soooo many times
[20:57:35 CEST] <kierank> and it ended up the same way
[20:57:37 CEST] <kierank> stories about 2011
[20:57:43 CEST] <kierank> let's hear everyone's view about what happened
[20:57:54 CEST] <ubitux> i never saw a single irc channel opened by a third party
[20:57:56 CEST] <ubitux> never
[20:58:02 CEST] <ubitux> or even by either side
[20:58:32 CEST] <kierank> we tried a ml and it was bad
[20:58:33 CEST] <ubitux> ffmpeg devs seems to be willing to communicate exclusively online, and libav devs seems to be willing to communicate exclusively irl
[20:58:44 CEST] <kierank> i don't see why an irc will be different
[20:58:56 CEST] <kierank> irc is always heated when libav comes to ffmpeg and ffmpeg goes to libav
[20:59:04 CEST] <kierank> no reason it will suddenly get better on a neutral channel
[20:59:05 CEST] <ubitux> because it can have moderation
[20:59:17 CEST] <ubitux> from a neutral party
[20:59:19 CEST] <jamrial> ubitux: exclusively or preferred?
[20:59:21 CEST] <ubitux> just like what you suggest irl
[20:59:26 CEST] <kierank> it can't because everyone talks on irc
[20:59:33 CEST] <ubitux> jamrial: yeah, prefered if you want :)
[20:59:49 CEST] <ubitux> kierank: then the neutral party says to shut up and people do?
[20:59:58 CEST] <ubitux> and if they don't they get devoiced
[21:00:03 CEST] <kierank> shut up when
[21:00:03 CEST] <ubitux> what's so complicated?
[21:00:04 CEST] <kierank> ?
[21:00:11 CEST] <kierank> like you could just talk for hours
[21:00:20 CEST] <kierank> and the neutral party has no reason to stop you
[21:00:30 CEST] <ubitux> then what will be different irl?
[21:00:40 CEST] <ubitux> are you going to talk louder?
[21:01:00 CEST] <kierank> no but everyone can wait and let everyone hear
[21:01:09 CEST] <kierank> I don't say it's brilliant - i mean i didn't even go last  year
[21:01:13 CEST] <kierank> because it was painful
[21:01:17 CEST] <jamrial> ideally we shouldn't need a mediator/arbiter...
[21:01:21 CEST] <kierank> but irc is going to be a disaster
[21:01:23 CEST] <kierank> history shows
[21:01:31 CEST] <kierank> we have the best opportunity for discussion
[21:01:40 CEST] <kierank> irc will be lighting a match under a firework
[21:01:42 CEST] <ubitux> there is absolutely no reason irl is not going to be a disaster
[21:01:55 CEST] <ubitux> the only reason i think it might work is because we would accept a whim from libav
[21:02:01 CEST] <ubitux> to show them some concession
[21:02:07 CEST] <kierank> maybe
[21:02:09 CEST] <kierank> I dunno
[21:03:12 CEST] <ubitux> (and while this request makes absolutely zero sense to me is the reason i consider it a concession)
[21:03:23 CEST] <kierank> ok
[21:03:32 CEST] <kierank> ubitux: do you agree though that the ffmpeg project needs to make a public statement
[21:03:44 CEST] <ubitux> yeah sure, it's fine
[21:03:46 CEST] <kierank> otherwise HN, reddit etc will make that statement (incorrectly) instead of us
[21:04:14 CEST] <ubitux> did you see the ml post i made recently btw?
[21:04:29 CEST] <ubitux> i'm mentioning the fact that we want people to stop bitching at each other
[21:04:38 CEST] <kierank> yes the godwin thing was good
[21:04:47 CEST] <ubitux> so maybe call for the community to calm down and lie by saying everyone is looking for a reconciliation
[21:04:54 CEST] <ubitux> in that announcement
[21:05:17 CEST] <ubitux> maybe that would help
[21:05:27 CEST] <ubitux> but since i have no idea what libav wants, i don't know
[21:05:31 CEST] <kierank> I was trying to say that subtly yes
[21:05:45 CEST] <ubitux> i mean, i believe we've been doing almost everything they wanted to change originally
[21:05:54 CEST] <wm4> the lack of interested from the Libav side is worrisome
[21:06:20 CEST] <ubitux> like, we don't even have a leader anymore, why is there still no communication or anything positive?
[21:06:31 CEST] <ubitux> wasn't the fork all about michael being a leader?
[21:06:42 CEST] <kierank> they need time to digest
[21:06:53 CEST] <kierank> ubitux: well there has been response
[21:07:02 CEST] <kierank> unfortunately it has been fighting on HN, g+ etc
[21:07:12 CEST] <ubitux> yeah i'm going to ignore this
[21:07:43 CEST] <ubitux> it's honestly very frustrating to not know what they want
[21:07:52 CEST] <ubitux> (which is part of the reason i sent that mail)
[21:10:16 CEST] <ubitux> ...and i don't want to wait for a month to just hear IRL, "well fu we don't want to work with you, give us apologies and die" or that sort of thing
[21:10:30 CEST] <ubitux> so if anyone can push them to communicate anything *before*, that will be appreciated
[21:10:48 CEST] <ubitux> even if that's really just what i stated
[21:11:11 CEST] <ubitux> so we can forget this reconciliation, move on, and continue "winning" this silly war
[21:11:45 CEST] <ubitux> silence is so much more annoying that hate messages
[21:11:49 CEST] <ubitux> anyway, afk
[21:12:22 CEST] <wm4> so, uh, how much time do they need to "digest"?
[21:13:05 CEST] <wm4> I suppose for now it might be better to put them under stress, but in the end we'll have to convince them too, possibly using somewhat stronger language
[21:13:29 CEST] <wm4> (never hire me as diplomat)
[21:14:29 CEST] <BBB> hehehe
[21:14:51 CEST] <BBB> look, I dont know what their ideal end scenario is, but either project is unlikely to just evaporate in thin air
[21:15:11 CEST] <BBB> so a reasonable end scenario would be for us to move major obstacles out of the way and try to work together again
[21:15:40 CEST] <BBB> but who am i
[21:21:57 CEST] <kierank> where is llogan?
[21:27:24 CEST] <kierank> does anyone have access to twitter apart from llogan?
[21:27:50 CEST] <BBB> can you email him?
[21:29:23 CEST] <kierank> yeah I emailed him
[21:37:51 CEST] <kierank> who has commit rights to ffmpeg-web?
[21:38:54 CEST] <nevcairiel> where does that repo even live
[21:39:16 CEST] <kierank> I cloned it from git://git.ffmpeg.org/ffmpeg-web
[21:39:54 CEST] <nevcairiel> isnt that just a redirect
[21:40:18 CEST] <kierank> i think that's the actual repo
[21:42:07 CEST] <nevcairiel> then no idea
[21:50:27 CEST] <BBB> I have commit rights
[21:50:31 CEST] <BBB> but so should everyone else, no?
[21:50:39 CEST] <BBB> at least I had commit rights back a long time ago
[21:50:45 CEST] <BBB> I can try if you want
[21:50:50 CEST] <BBB> but you should have commit rights also
[21:51:06 CEST] <nevcairiel> i have rights to the main repo, but i dont know what the push url for that web thing would be
[21:53:48 CEST] <JEEB> jesus damn, someone finally started thinking that parsing the mkvmerge metadata duration is a good idea to base something upon :|
[21:54:32 CEST] <kierank> I'll wait a few hours to make sure there are no more ML comments
[21:54:50 CEST] <nevcairiel> you should know that before he wanted to introduce his own metadata to do the same thing JEEB
[21:54:51 CEST] <kierank> and I need to find someone to tweet it and perhaps facebook it as well
[21:56:58 CEST] <michaelni> the keys for web and main git arent automatically synced. beastd & ubitux sure have access but i could add more people if needed
[21:59:43 CEST] <kierank> michaelni: can you add me please
[22:01:38 CEST] <wm4> sigh, this mp3 probing code
[22:04:48 CEST] <michaelni> kierank, added
[22:05:05 CEST] <kierank> thx
[22:12:15 CEST] <lglinskih_> kierank: should bitexact flag be applicable for all decoders?
[22:12:27 CEST] <kierank> no, some decoders are not bitextact (float audio)
[22:12:31 CEST] <kierank> mpeg-2
[22:12:32 CEST] <kierank> etc
[22:12:59 CEST] <kierank> you might need to write equivalent code that fate has to allow small deviations
[22:16:22 CEST] <lglinskih_> kierank: so in that case I should compare bits of a frames, not crcs?
[22:16:48 CEST] <kierank> iirc fate does some kind of standard deviation on the output data
[22:16:51 CEST] <rcombs> what would anyone think of having the duration field on AVStream/AVFormatContext be meaningful when encoding?
[22:16:53 CEST] <kierank> and there are thresholes 
[22:17:08 CEST] <rcombs> like, if it's set, write that duration in the header
[22:18:07 CEST] <rcombs> possibly making a file have a valid (if approximate) duration during a live encode, and/or avoiding a seekback later
[22:52:33 CEST] <BBB> rcombs: yeah I had that issue recently for ivf
[22:52:55 CEST] <BBB> rcombs: http://git.videolan.org/?p=ffmpeg.git;a=commit;h=3a18d3fa047535980aa5368ebfda30ee0f1579cc
[22:53:11 CEST] <BBB> rcombs: if theres some way to make that easier, Id love it
[22:53:37 CEST] <wm4> in general you don't know it in advance
[22:53:50 CEST] <wm4> e.g. filters could do arbitrary things to the timeline
[22:53:51 CEST] <rcombs> BBB: right now I have ffmpeg.c hacked to insert a private duration parameter in the metadata, and matroskaenc hacked to parse and use it
[22:54:04 CEST] <rcombs> wm4: yeah, but in the case where you do know, it can be useful
[22:54:16 CEST] <wm4> btw. can ffmpeg change video speed? (with also changing audio speed)
[22:54:36 CEST] <BBB> rcombs: if we can initialize duration to something sane and write that in the header, thatd be great
[22:55:00 CEST] <BBB> then, if the demuxer wants to privately keep track of duration and write a more precise version at end of stream (if seekable), thats even better
[22:55:07 CEST] <BBB> rcombs: so Im all for it
[22:55:14 CEST] <BBB> (but right now we both know it doesnt work :D)
[22:56:20 CEST] <rcombs> wm4: maybe let filters present a function that takes the input durations (or, well, the approximations thereof) of their input streams and returns the expected output duration, given what they know about their parameters
[22:56:38 CEST] <kierank> problem is in vfr duration of a file is meaningless
[22:56:47 CEST] <kierank> what's the duration of the last frame?
[22:57:22 CEST] <rcombs> so filters like subtitles, scale, etc... that don't adjust the timeline just don't present it and it's treated like the input duration
[22:57:50 CEST] <rcombs> ones that adjust in a predictable manner (e.g. atempo) return a decent approximation
[22:58:01 CEST] <rcombs> and ones that are unpredictable return NOPTS_VALUE
[22:58:38 CEST] <rcombs> kierank: that doesn't make it meaningless, it just makes it an approximation
[22:58:51 CEST] <rcombs> which can still be useful
[22:59:46 CEST] <BtbN> something i just wondered, with this FF_API_CODED_FRAME deprecation, how would for example an rtmp output muxer know which frames to drop in case of network congestion?
[22:59:51 CEST] <kierank> durandal_1707: ping
[23:00:01 CEST] <wm4> rcombs: sounds too complicated
[23:02:10 CEST] <durandal_1707>  kierank: pong
[23:02:50 CEST] <kierank> durandal_1707: any views on the statement?
[23:03:17 CEST] <kierank> https://etherpad.mozilla.org/Cem9NXUdZw
[23:03:18 CEST] <iive> BtbN: you can always add more meta-data :)
[23:03:47 CEST] <BtbN> Well, the meta-data is already there. And deprecated without a replacement.
[23:04:16 CEST] <BtbN> The argument for it seems to be that it's not reliable, but for frame-drop estimation for rtmp it's more than usefull
[23:04:34 CEST] <durandal_1707> that thing? whatever. Sadly I'm not available on vdd.
[23:04:45 CEST] <kierank> ok
[23:05:03 CEST] <kierank> I want to commit it today but I don't want people getting angry at me saying they weren't consulted
[23:09:05 CEST] <wm4> isn't it acknowledged only by those who have signed?
[23:09:47 CEST] <rcombs> wm4: it's that or assume filters don't adjust the duration, let them set a flag that says they might, and unset it if any of those are in play
[23:09:54 CEST] <kierank> wm4: well I'm sticking it on ffmpeg.org
[23:09:58 CEST] <kierank> so essentially it is the project speaking
[23:12:35 CEST] <rcombs> it's uh...
[23:12:41 CEST] <rcombs> kinda unfocused
[23:12:47 CEST] <rcombs> (that pad)
[23:13:00 CEST] <rcombs> paragraphs don't seem to know where they're going
[23:14:50 CEST] <wm4> feel free to correct it
[23:19:31 CEST] Action: kierank wonders who Blue guy is
[23:19:35 CEST] <kierank> is he just a random troll
[23:21:21 CEST] <wm4> lol
[23:21:26 CEST] <nevcairiel> he kinda speaks like durandal_1707
[23:21:54 CEST] <kierank> yeah but durandal_1707 knows what the plan is
[23:21:56 CEST] <kierank> since he's in the thread
[23:27:43 CEST] <kierank> reynaldo: ping
[23:28:09 CEST] <reynaldo> kierank: pong
[23:28:22 CEST] <kierank> so when we make the statement can you put it on twitter
[23:28:23 CEST] <kierank> https://etherpad.mozilla.org/Cem9NXUdZw
[23:28:28 CEST] <kierank> it's going to go on ffmpeg.org
[23:29:25 CEST] <reynaldo> Im going to be offline for the rest of the day starting 5m from now
[23:29:37 CEST] <reynaldo> maybe Lou can help?
[23:29:41 CEST] <kierank> lou is away too
[23:29:58 CEST] <kierank> can you pm me the twitter password?
[23:35:59 CEST] <kierank> blue troll is annoying
[23:37:52 CEST] <Compn> I is back
[23:38:37 CEST] <Compn> ett e pad looks pk , wording change to "we cant thank him enough"
[23:39:00 CEST] <kierank> a bit informal
[23:39:09 CEST] <kierank> imo
[23:39:50 CEST] <Compn> we must thank him almost sounds like a forced gtatitude 
[23:39:55 CEST] <reynaldo> kierank: feel about uneassy about giving away the passwd as its under lou email address, would you understand if we bounce this to him be email? I will take care of this tweet
[23:39:58 CEST] <Compn> hehe
[23:40:04 CEST] <reynaldo> so you dont et blocked
[23:40:04 CEST] <kierank> reynaldo: ah ok
[23:40:20 CEST] <reynaldo> kierank: hope you understand
[23:40:25 CEST] <kierank> it's ok
[23:40:31 CEST] <reynaldo> everyone has right to it I guess, its just that its his account
[23:41:10 CEST] <kierank> I'm not sure when to actually push it to ffmpeg.org
[23:42:56 CEST] <reynaldo> kierank: send me an email once you guys make a desicion and I will handle it
[23:43:46 CEST] <Compn> kierank, did you get access, or do you need me?
[23:43:51 CEST] <kierank> I got access
[23:44:13 CEST] <Compn> ok, ill be afk then.
[23:50:16 CEST] <kierank> Compn: ping
[23:50:17 CEST] <kierank> are you still there
[23:51:08 CEST] <Compn> ye
[23:51:14 CEST] <kierank> Compn: any idea why I get fatal: remote error: access denied or repository not exported: /ffmpeg-web
[23:51:20 CEST] <kierank> what url should I be using
[23:52:17 CEST] <bencoh> (meh, why did I ever try to backlog the past 24 hours ... :])
[23:52:26 CEST] <Compn> hmm
[23:52:45 CEST] <Compn> kierank : what addy did you use ?
[23:53:03 CEST] <kierank> url = git://source.ffmpeg.org/ffmpeg-web
[23:53:13 CEST] <kierank> bencoh: lol
[23:53:25 CEST] <Compn> 	url = gil at git.ffmpeg.org:ffmpeg-web
[23:53:36 CEST] <Compn> is in my config
[23:53:46 CEST] <Compn> probably shouldnt be pasting it here but oph well
[23:53:48 CEST] <kierank> gil?
[23:53:57 CEST] <Compn> git light or something no idea
[23:54:02 CEST] <kierank> ok seems to work
[23:54:12 CEST] <Compn> do a test commit typo fix or somethin
[23:54:28 CEST] <kierank> https://ffmpeg.org/#message
[23:54:32 CEST] <kierank> does it look ok?
[23:54:34 CEST] <reynaldo> kierank: I would rephrase the text as a thank you note only tbh, and add the invitation for coordination and discussion at the end (the videolan section). Im worried about bits like "the current situation gives us an opportunity ..." as it reads as if michael was the one blocking a *solution*
[23:54:39 CEST] <reynaldo> just my two cents
[23:55:04 CEST] <kierank> reynaldo: it's written like that because that's what michael said in his letter
[23:55:08 CEST] <ubitux> kierank: last paragraph is not closed properly
[23:55:54 CEST] <Compn> i just dont think we'll solve anything at vdd, as we didnt the last few years when we tried....
[23:56:02 CEST] <Compn> but whatever, you want to try again, go for it
[23:56:02 CEST] <kierank> neither do i
[23:56:17 CEST] <kierank> it's the best chance we have though
[23:56:42 CEST] <reynaldo> kierank: even with that, is the ffmpeg community speaking now, he deserves a huge thank you and "hope he remains around", I'd put it that way
[23:56:59 CEST] <reynaldo> but again, Im not the one writting, just think it would be better that way
[23:57:13 CEST] <kierank> dunno, there's like 10 other people in etherpad
[23:57:28 CEST] <Compn> yeah i dunno if this is even an opportunity to do anything with michaelni gone :\
[23:57:32 CEST] <kierank> lydia just said push it because we kept tweaking it
[23:57:41 CEST] <ubitux> kierank: you closed a paragraph already closed.
[23:57:43 CEST] <Compn> yes lydia who isnt even in irc chat
[23:57:55 CEST] <kierank> yes but lydia tried for 4 years to get the projects to merge
[23:57:59 CEST] <michaelni> i dont like the wording either 
[23:58:11 CEST] <ubitux> who is lydia?
[23:58:27 CEST] <kierank> michaelni: what don't you like
[23:58:52 CEST] <Compn> just seems like some rushed words , without even talking to libav people
[23:58:56 CEST] <ubitux> (kierank: you didn't send a patch as announced :p)
[23:59:35 CEST] <kierank> Compn: otherwise the HN and reddit agenda takes over
[23:59:38 CEST] <kierank> and we hear 2011 stories again
[23:59:50 CEST] <Compn> pfft, that happens anyway.
[23:59:57 CEST] <kierank> not if we make a clear statement
[00:00:00 CEST] --- Sun Aug  2 2015

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