[Ffmpeg-devel-irc] ffmpeg.log.20170506

[burek]

[00:00:23 CEST] <draean> more specifically, say it's there for a few minutes, then drops out, but I want to continue encoding video, just with blank audio, until it comes back in, then start mixing them again.
[00:04:05 CEST] <faLUCE> arog: private msg, I'm going to help you
[00:25:05 CEST] <hiihiii> hello
[00:26:17 CEST] <hiihiii> I was reading a bit about tinterlace filter
[00:26:42 CEST] <hiihiii> and I don't think I understand the modes correctly
[00:27:31 CEST] <hiihiii> I'm looking to make a 60i from a 30p video
[00:27:51 CEST] <hiihiii> so if I have
[00:28:33 CEST] <hiihiii> frmaes of 30p : [A] [B] [C] [D]
[00:29:53 CEST] <hiihiii> frames of 60i : [A0] [A1] [B0] [B1] [C0] [C1] [D0] [D1] with 1 & 0 denoting even & odd fields respectively
[00:30:57 CEST] <hiihiii> interlacex2 mode seems to be the answer but not sure
[00:33:22 CEST] <hiihiii> then there are these flags -flags +ilme+ildct -alternate_scan 1 -top 0, that I don't know if I can set in conjunction with tinterlace filter
[00:39:34 CEST] <zerodefect> hiihiii: Can you not use the 'separatefields' filter?
[00:42:56 CEST] <hiihiii> zerodefect: okay give me a sec. I'll read that
[00:44:18 CEST] <zerodefect> Admittedly, I don't quite understand how it determines the field dominance with that filter though
[00:49:27 CEST] <james999> hmm are there NLEs for linux that use ffmpeg libraries?
[00:50:24 CEST] <hiihiii> zerodefect: but it says half height
[00:51:12 CEST] <hiihiii> field dominance is not an issue though
[00:52:12 CEST] <zerodefect> Yes...i think it's say that each field will be half the height of your progressive scan
[00:52:49 CEST] <zerodefect> *saying
[00:53:38 CEST] <hiihiii> and... if I deinterlace that I would get original height back?
[00:54:23 CEST] <hiihiii> or if I would play it in a media player I'd get full height?
[00:54:43 CEST] <zerodefect> Yes to both of those
[00:54:51 CEST] <zerodefect> ...that is my interpretation of the docs :)
[00:54:52 CEST] <hiihiii> oh ok
[00:55:03 CEST] <zerodefect> Not tried both those filters
[00:55:46 CEST] <hiihiii> I wish they had filters and options grouped together
[00:56:17 CEST] <hiihiii> like having a section of al filters dealing with interlaced footage
[00:56:49 CEST] <hiihiii> they have stuff all over the place, weave interlace tinterlace doubleweave select
[00:57:12 CEST] <zerodefect> It's not helped by the fact that there are so many video filters :)
[00:58:57 CEST] <hiihiii> here's what I'm really trying to achieve. I'd like to go from a 60p to 120i to 60p again then to 30p
[01:00:12 CEST] <zerodefect> Can I ask why?
[01:00:44 CEST] <hiihiii> because then I'd end up with a video whose frames look like this [A0+B1] [C0+D1] [E0+F1] [G0+H1]...
[01:01:50 CEST] <hiihiii> useful for a specific game
[01:02:17 CEST] <zerodefect> https://ffmpeg.org/ffmpeg-filters.html#interlace
[01:02:27 CEST] <zerodefect> There is an interlace filter....that is actually the one you want
[01:02:47 CEST] <hiihiii> I know I've listed it up
[01:04:46 CEST] <hiihiii> I got confused when I knew about the other filters and flags
[01:05:58 CEST] <hiihiii> on one forum, someonesaid that +ildct reduces DCT ringing artifacts https://forum.videohelp.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=18161&d=1370191855
[01:06:48 CEST] <hiihiii> was wondering if I could use that with the other flags
[01:08:08 CEST] <zerodefect> Yeah, I'm not sure.
[01:08:15 CEST] <zerodefect> I need to run though.
[01:11:55 CEST] <hiihiii> it always ends with you having to do your own tests
[01:22:27 CEST] <hiihiii> huh? I run -vf "interlace" -crf 0 output.mp4 and it gave me progressive scan
[01:24:39 CEST] <furq> hiihiii: -flags +ilme+ildct
[01:30:29 CEST] <hiihiii> ok thx
[02:24:47 CEST] <hiihiii> wait... if I couldn't get MBAFF scan type with -vf interlace, only when I added -flags +ilme+ildct, then shouldn't the flags be enough
[02:25:02 CEST] <hiihiii> i'll run a test
[02:30:18 CEST] <hiihiii> looks the same as "fps=60,interlace"
[02:30:59 CEST] <hiihiii> without me having to double the framerate
[02:46:44 CEST] <Guest23360> who can recompile ffmpeg for me
[03:44:20 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> https://pastebin.com/kDDD8vSx hello, I'm running into the error "undefined constant or missing '(' in 'baseline'" while trying to transcode video using ffmpeg
[03:45:51 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> the currently-used encoder is h264_vaapi but the issue persists with other encoders
[03:46:25 CEST] <hiihiii> maybe you should specify -level
[03:46:45 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> changes nothing
[03:47:11 CEST] <hiihiii> -level has arguments
[03:47:21 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> I know
[03:47:26 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> I specified 3.0
[03:47:56 CEST] <hiihiii> ok
[03:48:26 CEST] <hiihiii> how about 3.1
[03:48:38 CEST] <furq> that won't make any difference
[03:48:51 CEST] <cryptodechange> Going through some DVDs I passed through MakeMKV
[03:49:03 CEST] <furq> kinkinkijkin: do you get the same issue with libx264
[03:49:08 CEST] <furq> because that looks like something's just broken
[03:49:10 CEST] <cryptodechange> One source, don't notice any lines, but there is blending between frames
[03:49:40 CEST] <furq> cryptodechange: welcome to the world of badly deinterlaced dvds
[03:50:14 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> no, libx264 with most of my options stripped succeeds
[03:51:14 CEST] <furq> does -profile:v 66 work
[03:51:47 CEST] <furq> with h264_vaapi
[03:52:24 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> almost
[03:52:53 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> new output https://pastebin.com/9yfwwXUV
[03:55:17 CEST] <cryptodechange> furq
[03:55:17 CEST] <cryptodechange> https://imgur.com/a/QmDqm
[03:55:24 CEST] <cryptodechange> What do you suggest in this situation? Leave as is?
[03:55:30 CEST] <cryptodechange> Encode as is*
[03:55:58 CEST] <furq> that's just a shitty transfer
[03:57:08 CEST] <cryptodechange> from VHS?
[03:58:19 CEST] <furq> no it's just a badly done telecine
[03:58:26 CEST] <furq> if it's ntsc then you might be able to ivtc it
[03:59:17 CEST] <cryptodechange> 25 fps PAL
[03:59:24 CEST] <furq> rip
[03:59:42 CEST] <furq> field blended pal is pretty much a nightmare
[04:02:19 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> wait, if I switch from distro-provided ffmpeg to manually-compiled ffmpeg, do I also have to manually-compile libav?
[04:02:31 CEST] <furq> you already did
[04:02:51 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> ah
[04:03:17 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> so I'm running dry for ideas on what could be causing this
[04:03:42 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> it's just saying encoding profile not found but it also dumps a warning about the current encoding profile
[04:03:48 CEST] <furq> if it wsa a library mismatch then ffmpeg would yell at you abou tit
[04:03:59 CEST] <furq> i've never used vaapi so i have no idea what's going on there
[04:04:20 CEST] <furq> i assume that message means the device doesn't support that profile
[04:04:20 CEST] <cryptodechange> What's the solution? figure out the normal to blended frame ratio and knock down the FPS?
[04:04:49 CEST] <furq> i've not really worked enough with animation to know
[04:05:03 CEST] <furq> there are doubtless some avisynth scripts that deal with this sort of thing
[04:07:22 CEST] <draean> I need to take in an audio stream source that may come and go, but if it's gone, I want to continue streaming, just play silence. is there a way to do that with ffmpeg? or is there another program I could use to stream black audio merged with the stream source to ffmpeg?
[04:08:14 CEST] <james999> <furq> cryptodechange: welcome to the world of badly deinterlaced dvds
[04:08:17 CEST] <james999> ^ this
[04:08:56 CEST] <furq> yeah that's particularly bad
[04:09:28 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> what are the names of the hevc profiles?
[04:12:37 CEST] <furq> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Video_Coding#Profiles
[04:12:42 CEST] <furq> ffmpeg doesn't have aliases for them yet iirc
[04:12:47 CEST] <furq> you have to set the options manually for x265
[04:16:51 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> furq do you know which I should input, though?
[04:17:02 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> main doesn't work
[04:27:17 CEST] <cryptodechange> <furq> there are doubtless some avisynth scripts that deal with this sort of thing
[04:27:22 CEST] <cryptodechange> any examples i can look for?
[04:27:31 CEST] <cryptodechange> I have some content with some clear telecine
[04:28:18 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> found the issue, mesa vaapi driver doesn't support my gpu while using amdgpu instead of radeon
[04:28:24 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> should've checked that first
[04:28:33 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> going to go back to radeon and verify this is really it
[04:32:27 CEST] <cryptodechange> https://imgur.com/a/SOOVw
[04:32:40 CEST] <cryptodechange> This source looks like every 1st, 2nd, 3rd frame is ok, 4th 5th is not
[04:36:08 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> okay, I now have access to vaapi fully
[04:36:13 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> ... and the issue persists
[04:55:58 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> what is the number I should put for the profile if I want to use main, instead of baseline, for x264
[04:56:18 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> my driver doesn't actually able to encode to baseline
[04:56:26 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> only main, high, and constrainedbaseline
[04:57:03 CEST] <furq> 77
[04:57:07 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> thanks
[04:58:29 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> now I'm getting just "b frames are now supported"
[05:02:26 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> it's working with -bf 0
[05:17:02 CEST] <cryptodechange> So I have a NTSC source, 29.97 FPS and interlaced
[05:18:00 CEST] <cryptodechange> -vf fieldmatch,decimate ?
[05:18:42 CEST] <furq> do you mean interlaced or telecined
[05:19:09 CEST] <cryptodechange> https://imgur.com/a/SOOVw
[05:19:41 CEST] <cryptodechange> 3 progessive, 2 split, so telecine?
[05:19:41 CEST] <dystopia_> thats not interlaced
[05:19:44 CEST] <thebombzen> looks telecined
[05:19:52 CEST] <thebombzen> have you tried -vf fieldmatch,decimate
[05:19:54 CEST] <cryptodechange> Google told me
[05:20:18 CEST] <cryptodechange> Interlace is 100% split, I guess? Telecine is mix of progressive and split
[05:20:53 CEST] <furq> -vf fieldmatch,bwdif=deint=interlaced,decimate
[05:20:58 CEST] <furq> is apparently a good way to go
[05:21:41 CEST] <thebombzen> I'm not sure how it compares to -vf pullup
[05:21:43 CEST] <cryptodechange> i'll do -preset fast -tune animation to try some out
[05:22:00 CEST] <cryptodechange> I found this
[05:22:02 CEST] <cryptodechange> https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=172289
[05:22:09 CEST] <furq> yeah try -vf pullup as well
[05:22:12 CEST] <cryptodechange> -vf fieldmatch,yadif=deint=interlaced
[05:22:18 CEST] <thebombzen> btw, what movie is that from
[05:22:22 CEST] <furq> bwdif is better than yadif
[05:22:25 CEST] <furq> and you need decimate afterwards
[05:22:27 CEST] <cryptodechange> Dragonball GT DVD set
[05:22:35 CEST] Action: cryptodechange ducks
[05:22:43 CEST] <thebombzen> I mean it looks like old anime
[05:22:46 CEST] <furq> also wrt that x-men or whatever it was dvd, you probably just want to find an ntsc source
[05:23:00 CEST] <thebombzen> sad that the put the telecined version on the dv
[05:23:03 CEST] <furq> you're never going to get a clean rip from field blended garbage
[05:23:04 CEST] <thebombzen> on the dvd and not the source
[05:23:30 CEST] <cryptodechange> I kind of regret getting the entire set from Amazon now
[05:23:35 CEST] <cryptodechange> Should've bought from .com and .co.uk
[05:23:41 CEST] <cryptodechange> not .co.uk*
[05:23:59 CEST] <furq> yeah it's annoying
[05:24:07 CEST] <furq> proper film to pal is ideal if the only source is dvd
[05:24:13 CEST] <cryptodechange> https://imgur.com/a/QmDqm
[05:24:19 CEST] <cryptodechange> for thebombzen
[05:24:30 CEST] <furq> but the flip side is that you sometimes get film to ntsc to pal, which is fucking disgusting
[05:24:56 CEST] <dystopia_> ghosting and needs a big crop :(
[05:25:05 CEST] <thebombzen> cryptodechange: that doesn't look like dragonball gt
[05:25:06 CEST] <furq> you really need to use your player's screenshot function
[05:25:08 CEST] <thebombzen> that looks like xmen
[05:25:22 CEST] <cryptodechange> It is :D
[05:25:25 CEST] <thebombzen> and I think VLC can just screenshot the video
[05:25:30 CEST] <thebombzen> I know mpv can
[05:25:31 CEST] <furq> notice how i said "your player" to avoid even coming close to endorsing the use of vlc for anything ever
[05:25:43 CEST] <thebombzen> well to be fair
[05:26:04 CEST] <thebombzen> calling VLC terrible is unfair because we use Linux and we're used to CLI players
[05:26:13 CEST] <furq> maybe you do
[05:26:33 CEST] <thebombzen> for people on windows who only ever use GUIs, VLC isn't so bad, especially since most of them are used to WMP
[05:26:40 CEST] <furq> sure
[05:26:44 CEST] <furq> some things do smell worse than shit
[05:26:48 CEST] <dystopia_> i prefer mpc in windows
[05:26:52 CEST] <dystopia_> vlc seems bloated
[05:27:00 CEST] <cryptodechange> So uh
[05:27:03 CEST] <thebombzen> vlc isn't great mind you but it's not godawful
[05:27:04 CEST] <cryptodechange> Should I trash the x-men?
[05:27:11 CEST] <furq> if you can find an ntsc source then yeah
[05:27:20 CEST] <thebombzen> cryptodechange: you should X it
[05:27:22 CEST] <furq> that's a bad pal transfer from ntsc
[05:27:28 CEST] <furq> rather than from the master
[05:27:34 CEST] <cryptodechange> X?
[05:27:36 CEST] <furq> so it's of absolutely no value
[05:27:38 CEST] <thebombzen> pun
[05:27:44 CEST] <thebombzen> "axe it" is a slang term for cut it
[05:27:48 CEST] <thebombzen> but it's X men
[05:27:49 CEST] <thebombzen> so X it
[05:27:51 CEST] <thebombzen> nvm
[05:27:54 CEST] <cryptodechange> oh
[05:27:56 CEST] <cryptodechange> lel
[05:28:23 CEST] <thebombzen> yea you should trash it if you can find anything better. the source you have isn't really worth keeping unless its' the only thing
[05:28:35 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> anybody here use obs? I need help translating an ffmpeg command to their ffmpeg command auto-generating interface
[05:28:43 CEST] <furq> it's comic book shit so i'm sure it'll be easy to find
[05:28:45 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> since they removed custom commands
[05:28:52 CEST] <thebombzen> kinkinkijkin: they did not remove custom commands
[05:29:00 CEST] <thebombzen> you have to go to advanced output and select FFmpeg output to file
[05:29:09 CEST] <cryptodechange> note to self, avoid old animated stuff on DVD
[05:29:13 CEST] <furq> i would not feel bad about pirating it after spending money on such a piece of shit dvd
[05:29:13 CEST] <cryptodechange> from UK*
[05:29:21 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> I did, I still get an autogenerator
[05:29:23 CEST] <cryptodechange> ikr
[05:29:28 CEST] <thebombzen> oh you mean that thing
[05:29:32 CEST] <thebombzen> yea
[05:29:37 CEST] <thebombzen> what command did you have
[05:29:43 CEST] <furq> also to reiterate again, a lot of pal dvds are better than ntsc
[05:29:58 CEST] <furq> so i guess try and check if it sucks
[05:30:01 CEST] <furq> before buying
[05:30:08 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> ffmpeg -hwaccel vaapi -vaapi_device /dev/dri/renderD128 -vf format='nv12|vaapi,hwupload' -threads 1 -f matroska -b:v 1M -minrate 1M -maxrate 1M -vcodec h264_vaapi -bf 0 -profile:v 77
[05:30:28 CEST] <furq> does obs use vaapi for vce
[05:30:33 CEST] <furq> i thought it had some bindings which actually work properly
[05:30:34 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> the -hwaccel and -vaapi_device passes are extremely important as they're the only things that make vaapi work
[05:30:41 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> VCE isn't implemented linux-side
[05:30:42 CEST] <furq> that might just be on windows though
[05:30:50 CEST] <furq> fair enough
[05:30:58 CEST] <thebombzen> kinkinkijkin: there's "custom muxer commands"
[05:31:00 CEST] <furq> i didn't think vce worked properly with vaapi yet
[05:31:00 CEST] <thebombzen> try putting it there
[05:31:07 CEST] <thebombzen> I think those are passed verbatim to ffmpeg
[05:31:07 CEST] <furq> it didn't last time someone knowledgeable mentioned it in here
[05:31:59 CEST] <cryptodechange> is there a difference between yadif=deint=interlaced and bwdif=deint=interlaced?
[05:32:16 CEST] <thebombzen> different deinterlacing algorithms
[05:32:19 CEST] <thebombzen> bwdif's is better though
[05:32:36 CEST] <dystopia_> is yadif=deint=interlaced just the same as yadif=0:0
[05:32:49 CEST] <furq> 0:0:1
[05:32:51 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> crap, I can't figure this out
[05:33:02 CEST] <thebombzen> kinkinkijkin: did you try what I suggested
[05:33:07 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> yep
[05:33:13 CEST] <thebombzen> and what happened?
[05:33:20 CEST] <thebombzen> like did you check the OBS logfile
[05:33:22 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> same nondescript error as ever
[05:34:40 CEST] <thebombzen> which is?
[05:34:46 CEST] <thebombzen> also try asking in #obsproject
[05:34:49 CEST] <thebombzen> someone there might know
[05:35:39 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> okay actually, muxer settings does pass them verbatim
[05:36:11 CEST] <cryptodechange> Ok wth
[05:36:15 CEST] <cryptodechange> Some episodes are interlaced
[05:36:22 CEST] <cryptodechange> and not frame blended
[05:37:06 CEST] <cryptodechange> aha
[05:37:11 CEST] <cryptodechange> its the first disc only
[05:37:19 CEST] <cryptodechange> whoever did the first disc screwed up
[05:38:11 CEST] <dystopia_> i used srestore with avisynth to repair some blended ntsc to pal anime conversions but the result was still pretty crappy
[05:40:16 CEST] <cryptodechange> Better than what it was though?
[05:40:22 CEST] <cryptodechange> It's only like, 7 20 minute episodes
[05:42:30 CEST] <furq> yeah i've used srestore to fix some field blended shit
[05:42:47 CEST] <furq> it does a pretty amazing job considering how bad the source was, but it's still not great
[05:43:18 CEST] <cryptodechange> Any guides or whatnot around?
[05:43:19 CEST] <furq> also it looks like what you have is field blended and then run through a shit deinterlacer
[05:43:25 CEST] <furq> i'm not sure if it'll work at all with that
[05:44:27 CEST] <furq> http://avisynth.nl/index.php/Srestore
[05:44:36 CEST] <furq> idk if there's a vapoursynth equivalent
[05:44:44 CEST] <furq> and you're on your own when it comes to getting all the shit you need installed
[05:45:41 CEST] <furq> at least for my source i still had visible blending on scene transitions and stuff
[05:45:48 CEST] <furq> but it was a big improvement
[05:46:03 CEST] <furq> that source was exceptionally bad though
[05:46:15 CEST] <furq> billy blanks deserves better tbh
[05:46:52 CEST] <james999> what is the equivalent of avisynth for linux?
[05:46:57 CEST] <furq> vapoursynth
[05:47:11 CEST] <furq> it's better on windows as well
[05:47:19 CEST] <james999> oh. thought you were talking in slang
[05:47:30 CEST] <furq> it's slightly slower and there aren't as many scripts
[05:47:39 CEST] <furq> but you get multithreading that doesn't randomly crash
[05:47:47 CEST] <james999> i just realized that's maybe a bad question to ask
[05:48:09 CEST] <james999> because it doesn't distinguish between "exact duplicate of the tool from another platform" and "the ordinary tool people on linux would tend to use for this problem"
[05:48:25 CEST] <furq> it's more or less a clone
[05:48:33 CEST] <furq> except it uses python instead of some custom scripting language
[05:48:43 CEST] <james999> yeah. i guess that's not what i intended but it's what i asked lol
[05:48:53 CEST] <furq> that is also the tool you would normally use on linux
[05:49:56 CEST] <james999> i know jack all about video editing on linux though.
[05:50:07 CEST] <james999> seems like gnome and kde were always having some half assed thing for that
[05:50:19 CEST] <furq> if you want an actual NLE then shotcut seems passable
[05:52:18 CEST] <james999> hah i wasn't even wrong. when i google for linux editors first one that comes up is Kdenlive from kde
[05:52:52 CEST] <furq> gnome has pitivi as well
[05:53:03 CEST] <james999> right that's what i thought
[05:53:06 CEST] <furq> which is written in pythona dn uses gstreamer
[05:53:16 CEST] <furq> imagine that!
[05:53:35 CEST] <james999> it's kind of confusing b/c gnome and kde would always compete by both providing a buggy, half-assed application to do something like this lol
[05:53:42 CEST] <furq> yeah
[05:53:54 CEST] <furq> i mean kate vs gedit is fair enough. that's relatively simple
[05:54:00 CEST] <furq> but don't fucking make two competing NLEs
[05:54:02 CEST] <james999> yeah
[05:54:13 CEST] <james999> when you get to that level it's taking it too far imo
[05:54:19 CEST] <james999> i can't even remember the names of everything either
[05:54:20 CEST] <furq> same with shit like gimp vs krita
[05:54:31 CEST] <james999> like it was gwenview for image viewing in kde for awhile. not sure what the gnome one was
[05:54:54 CEST] <furq> "oh it uses the wrong library for drawing widgets, so we rewrote the entire thing and made it suck even more"
[05:55:01 CEST] <furq> thanks linux that's a really helpful attitude
[05:55:44 CEST] <furq> the other nice thing about shotcut is that it's the only linux nle that doesn't have a fucking terrible name
[05:55:53 CEST] <james999> reminds me of that article complaining about freebsd autoconf tools checking for 26 non existent fortran compilers just to compilefirefox
[05:55:54 CEST] <furq> and also it actually works on windows
[05:56:16 CEST] <james999> is it related to openshot? this article says it's also cross platform
[05:56:36 CEST] <furq> they're competitors i think
[05:56:49 CEST] <furq> i've not used either but based on conversations in here, shotcut is better
[05:56:58 CEST] <james999> but regardless it seems like in linux the philosophy is, don't delete code ever and let's both write our own crappy version of photoshop or something
[05:57:56 CEST] <furq> it's pretty much "we're going to fork/develop our own version of this incredibly complex thing because of some fucking insane technicality"
[05:58:50 CEST] <furq> openoffice, ignore this
[05:58:54 CEST] <furq> libreoffice....hello
[05:58:59 CEST] <james999> haha. or because of a trivial argument that can't be resolved, so something gets forked
[05:59:12 CEST] <james999> oooh wasn't that staroffice back in the day?
[05:59:14 CEST] <james999> iirc
[05:59:19 CEST] <furq> i actually forgot about the whole ffmpeg/libav thing while i was typing that
[05:59:33 CEST] <furq> but yeah that's some typical open source bullshit
[05:59:41 CEST] <james999> yeh i read about that yesterday. that was more "let's fork this because fu i'm crazy"
[06:00:18 CEST] <furq> michael niedermayer is a mean bully, so we're going to fucking cause mayhem for years until it all goes to shit
[06:00:38 CEST] <furq> that one actually turned out ok though because of ffmpeg's policy of just merging all their changes
[06:00:58 CEST] <furq> while they pissed away grant money on reinventing libswresample for no reason
[06:02:07 CEST] <james999> i'm not any kind of guru. but i imagine they might have been able to survive if they found a niche
[06:02:21 CEST] <furq> i don't even know what michaelni actually did to earn their ire
[06:02:24 CEST] <james999> like that gimp vs krita thing. it's stupid but at least there are a base of users for each one
[06:02:29 CEST] <furq> i've seen much worse project maintainers
[06:02:43 CEST] <furq> based on everything i've seen of him he just seems permanently exhausted
[06:03:01 CEST] <james999> idk the article i read was saying "anti social nerd gets his project forked" so maybe he was like sheldon on big bang theory and the crybabies couldnt' handle it
[06:03:14 CEST] <furq> i wouldn't want to use anything that was anything like the big bang theory either
[06:03:40 CEST] <james999> although idk how much truth there is to it. i've had to work remotely with a touchy boss before and it can be tiring.
[06:03:41 CEST] <furq> also the gimp vs krita thing is pretty much down to whether you're using gnome or kde
[06:04:04 CEST] <james999> e.g. one time I asked him if this line of javascript was ok because it did xyz and he was like, DO NOT QUESTION MY JAVASCRIPT
[06:04:12 CEST] <furq> it's literally just because kde distros would find it embarrassing to ship with gtk installed
[06:04:16 CEST] <furq> and vice versa
[06:04:45 CEST] <furq> which is a tremendously shit reason to split the userbase and developers between two projects that are nowhere near as good as photoshop
[06:04:50 CEST] <james999> right. but my point is, at least those are users who will use krita say. even if it doesn't matter
[06:05:09 CEST] <furq> well libav had the same thing for a while because it finagled its way into debian
[06:05:10 CEST] <james999> if the libav ppl weren't idiots from the sound of it they might have succeeded in staying separate. just have to find a niche
[06:05:19 CEST] <furq> and a few other major distros
[06:05:31 CEST] <james999> right but taht was basically because they knew someone in debian. not a good long term prospect
[06:06:17 CEST] <furq> that's pretty much how you carve out a niche on linux though
[06:06:24 CEST] <furq> you make it a massive pain in the arse to install the alternative
[06:06:51 CEST] <james999> haha
[06:07:03 CEST] <furq> same with the 700 different file managers that every DE has
[06:07:33 CEST] <james999> idk i was thinking they could optimize something differently than ffmpeg. like go for speed where you go for size. or go for stability where you go for bleeding edge updates. something like that
[06:07:37 CEST] <furq> because every DE has to have their own config manager, and only the apps for that DE will pay attention to its settings
[06:08:04 CEST] <furq> so you install nautilus on xfce and it looks fucked for no reason that an ordinary person would give a shit about
[06:09:24 CEST] <james999> yeah i've heard linuxes accused of being elitist in that way before. and not just by non-techies either
[06:09:55 CEST] <james999> like, i like the command line, i use it a lot. but when you have to use it to do basic tasks like changing  a background or something then it's just shit
[06:10:01 CEST] <thebombzen> furq: gimp vs krita isn't the same sort of thing
[06:10:17 CEST] <thebombzen> krita is a digital art drawing program and gimp is a general-purpose image editing program
[06:10:32 CEST] <james999> i think i had to basically do command line fu on debian wheezy just to add a desktop shortcut. literally something that takes a few mouse clicks in windows
[06:10:33 CEST] <thebombzen> gimp is designed to be "a free photoshop" or something similar. krita is not intended to replace photoshop
[06:10:57 CEST] <thebombzen> james999: symblolic links work in most graphical DEs
[06:11:11 CEST] <thebombzen> ln -s /usr/bin/firefox ~/Desktop/ should work
[06:11:35 CEST] <james999> i dont' recall the details, all I recall is I had to use the command line in gnome on wheezy when the comparable operation in windows would be easier.
[06:11:51 CEST] <furq> i mean i normally use linux on servers so i'm perfectly happy using a shell
[06:12:20 CEST] <furq> but even that doesn't work consistently
[06:12:25 CEST] <james999> me too. but the ordinary user doesn't give a crap. if it's an easy thing they're used to doing on windows, and linux makes you open a command line and enter even just 1 arcane command... well then
[06:12:47 CEST] <furq> the answer to "how do i do x" is often one of 19 different things depending on what distro you're on, what DE you're using, what version of the previous two you're using, etc etc etc
[06:13:19 CEST] <thebombzen> well yes Linux is by design defragmented
[06:13:21 CEST] <james999> yeah. at least if they tried to copy windows explorer for common tasks they'd have a unified way. it wouldn't be perfect, but at least it wouldn't be that
[06:13:28 CEST] <thebombzen> it depends on which system you have installed
[06:13:31 CEST] <furq> you mean fragmented
[06:13:33 CEST] <thebombzen> yes I do
[06:13:48 CEST] <thebombzen> although I look at it differently
[06:14:04 CEST] <thebombzen> I see it as "on Linux the CLI is very easy to use" whereas on windows the cli is... not
[06:14:16 CEST] <thebombzen> there's no builtin windows CLI http client for example like cURL or wget
[06:14:21 CEST] <furq> i just said i don't care about having to use the cli
[06:14:27 CEST] <furq> that's a different issue from the fragmentation
[06:14:35 CEST] <thebombzen> correct
[06:14:37 CEST] <james999> the thing is people use macintosh a lot too, it has a command line, but nobody ever complains about usability on there like they would for linux
[06:14:39 CEST] <thebombzen> I'm commenting on the other thing
[06:14:44 CEST] <furq> the normal apologist answer i see is "oh...it's about choice"
[06:14:49 CEST] <furq> but it's not. it's the opposite
[06:14:58 CEST] <furq> if i want to install some alternative thing in windows it'll work
[06:15:13 CEST] <furq> on linux it won't because i'm using the wrong DE or some bullshit i don't care about
[06:15:23 CEST] <thebombzen> furq: this is not really true anymore
[06:15:36 CEST] <thebombzen> I install KDE applications on my MATE desktop all the time
[06:15:49 CEST] <thebombzen> like KVIrc, k3b, krita, or kdenlive
[06:15:51 CEST] <furq> do they look correct without any configuration
[06:16:11 CEST] <thebombzen> they look correct with the same amount of configuration as my mate DE has
[06:16:12 CEST] <james999> ah i used k3b all the time on my laptop. *nostalgia*
[06:16:13 CEST] <furq> last time i installed a kde app in a gtk de it looked fucked
[06:16:22 CEST] <thebombzen> I just need to install oxygen-icons and everything is fine
[06:16:24 CEST] <furq> it didn't even use the same fonts
[06:16:33 CEST] <thebombzen> that's an old problem
[06:16:36 CEST] <furq> different theme, different fonts, different font rendering somehow
[06:16:45 CEST] <thebombzen> nowadays, kde aps look fine on gtk desktops
[06:16:57 CEST] <thebombzen> they look like all your other qt apps
[06:17:05 CEST] <thebombzen> which look fine
[06:17:06 CEST] <furq> but i want them to look like all my gtk apps
[06:17:16 CEST] <furq> or at least similar enough
[06:17:22 CEST] <thebombzen> they look close enough that I don't care
[06:17:57 CEST] <thebombzen> that's also like the same problem on windows. projects using different abstraction toolkits won't look the same as projects using the native windows api
[06:18:07 CEST] <furq> that's only really true for gtk
[06:18:15 CEST] <furq> most stuff looks more or less native
[06:18:26 CEST] <james999> java interfaces did used to look pretty shit on windows
[06:18:32 CEST] <thebombzen> they look pretty shit always
[06:18:33 CEST] <furq> yeah but java is always shit everywhere
[06:18:50 CEST] <james999> haha i haven't used one in awhile, or if i did I didn't notice
[06:19:07 CEST] <thebombzen> keep in mind that you're insisting that all your applications look the same which is only possible with forced decustomizability
[06:19:26 CEST] <thebombzen> with macOS, all your applications look the same. the downside is they all look like whatever Steve Jobs says is the best
[06:19:50 CEST] <thebombzen> there's always going to be a tradeoff between having everythign look the same and having everything look exactly how you want it to
[06:20:01 CEST] <furq> there's a middle ground that isn't impossible to achieve though
[06:20:11 CEST] <thebombzen> GTK/QT has that
[06:20:24 CEST] <furq> also it's not just about looks, it's about pointless duplication of effort
[06:20:24 CEST] <james999> is part of the reason ubuntu did so well though that it emulated some of those mac os features?
[06:20:36 CEST] <thebombzen> ubuntu didn't do so well
[06:20:38 CEST] <furq> i don't mind if there are several file managers or text editors or whatever
[06:20:42 CEST] <furq> those are fairly trivial
[06:20:50 CEST] <james999> it's one of the top linux desktops now is it not?
[06:21:00 CEST] <thebombzen> james999: only among people who dont' know any better
[06:21:15 CEST] <furq> but why you would have so many different competing office suites, or NLEs, or graphic editors, when you're already playing catchup to such a huge extent
[06:21:22 CEST] <thebombzen> you don't have so many office suits
[06:21:31 CEST] <furq> and for such spurious reasons as "we didn't like the license" or "it uses the wrong widget toolkit"
[06:21:57 CEST] <thebombzen> as for office suites, the schism was caused by oracle forcing direction of the project that the developers didn't agree with
[06:22:21 CEST] <furq> they donated it to the ASF six years ago
[06:22:29 CEST] <furq> they've had six years to just fucking merge
[06:22:31 CEST] <furq> but they won't
[06:22:40 CEST] <thebombzen> but nobody uses openoffice
[06:22:46 CEST] <furq> of course they do
[06:22:53 CEST] <furq> loads of people don't know that libreoffice exists
[06:23:49 CEST] <thebombzen> as for image editors, there isn't a huge schism. Gimp and Krita aren't replacements for each other and do different things.
[06:24:05 CEST] <thebombzen> as for NLEs, well, yea. They shouldn't do that with NLEs. they all kind of suck.
[06:24:17 CEST] <thebombzen> given that they're all based on opencv and ffmpeg anyway
[06:24:24 CEST] <furq> pitivi isn't
[06:24:27 CEST] <furq> and i don't think kdenlive is
[06:24:36 CEST] <furq> pitivi is gnome so naturally that has to use gstreamer
[06:24:43 CEST] <furq> because the correct thing to do with good money is throw it after bad money
[06:25:45 CEST] <james999> idk i think maybe pride is part of it. like in my example with a shortcut, if they made it work similar to windows or mac that would be admitting the other system was "better" or something
[06:25:59 CEST] <furq> there are plenty of DEs where that is as simple as you'd hope
[06:26:07 CEST] <furq> but the way to do it on all of them is probably different
[06:26:13 CEST] <james999> yeah i was on debian, so i 'm sure you're correct
[06:26:18 CEST] <james999> also correct
[06:26:21 CEST] <thebombzen> kdenlive is based on melt
[06:26:28 CEST] <thebombzen> but it uses ffmpeg for various things
[06:26:42 CEST] <james999> it's common sense to me you'd want to make something simple like that similar to windows
[06:26:46 CEST] <thebombzen> I don't know why but every time something uses gstreamer I just feel bad
[06:26:53 CEST] <furq> i think you do know why
[06:26:54 CEST] <thebombzen> like gstreamer just never works the way I wan tit to
[06:27:05 CEST] <thebombzen> there's nothing obvious I can point out about it
[06:27:16 CEST] <thebombzen> it's more just that it's always ready to break randomly
[06:27:26 CEST] <thebombzen> especially since it just sits atop avcodec I always just want to use avcodec directly
[06:27:56 CEST] <thebombzen> as for the NLE things, yea. NLEs on Linux just suck
[06:28:12 CEST] <thebombzen> I tend to use ffmpeg.c to do most of that stuff
[06:28:55 CEST] <james999> well working together on one big NLE is hard i suppose
[06:29:02 CEST] <james999> you'd have to give up the one you work on now. :)
[06:29:20 CEST] <thebombzen> honestly the whole tookkit thing could be fixed by writing libNLE.so and just linking to it
[06:29:31 CEST] <furq> in other news, my ear is bleeding
[06:29:33 CEST] <furq> pretty cool huh
[06:30:07 CEST] <james999> furq: I found out picking at a scab on my chest caused my chest to bleed. kinda cool as well
[06:31:51 CEST] <furq> yeah that'll happen
[06:45:16 CEST] <james999> weird news story about some tech in america faking lab results to get convictions. now 23,000 prisoners are gonna be released cause of it
[06:45:55 CEST] <james999> what shocked me almost as much was the part where it said the Supreme Court ruled defendants can challenge lab chemists on the witness stand.
[07:38:01 CEST] <c3r1c3-Win> Every Testimony presented in the court of law has the right to be cross-examined.
[07:38:24 CEST] <c3r1c3-Win> If it can not be cross-examined, it can not be presented.
[07:54:27 CEST] <james999> well that's what they ruled
[07:54:38 CEST] <james999> what bugs me about that is that for a case to get to the Supreme Court takes a lot of steps
[07:54:56 CEST] <james999> often with judges disagreeing about it
[07:55:40 CEST] <james999> so there must have been some support for not allowing the lab techs to be called
[08:09:31 CEST] <c3r1c3-Win> Every single judge along the way could have ruled the same way... that said I have no idea what judges ruled which ways.
[08:12:23 CEST] <james999> you're saying the S.C. sometimes hears cases... and just agrees with every lower court?
[08:12:34 CEST] <james999> i mean they could just not hear it for the same effect right?
[08:27:22 CEST] <c3r1c3-Win> Depends.
[08:28:11 CEST] <c3r1c3-Win> Lets' say the 9thcircuit and 8th circuit have both ruled in agreement... then one side appeals. The SC can look at the case nad say "This is important enough that we need to make a ruling on it" and then hear the case and make a decision.
[08:28:55 CEST] <c3r1c3-Win> Hell, the SC can pick any federal case in any docket and decide to hear and rule on it.
[09:06:37 CEST] <thebombzen> james999: the supreme court hears 100 cases a year
[09:06:41 CEST] <thebombzen> which is like 1 every 3 days
[09:06:47 CEST] <thebombzen> 3 to 4
[09:07:07 CEST] <thebombzen> so keep in mind that it's intentionally difficult to get to the highest court, because they don't have the time to deal with it all
[09:08:08 CEST] <thebombzen> c3r1c3-Win: this is not quite accurate.... it has to be appealed to the SC
[09:08:32 CEST] <thebombzen> the supreme court doesn't decide to rule on cases not appealed to them unless they have original jurisdiction
[09:08:41 CEST] <thebombzen> which they do for a shortlist of things
[09:09:24 CEST] <thebombzen> james999: in order for the surpeme court to hear a case, they need a writ of certiorari which is a statement by 4 of the 9 judges agreeing to hear the case. given that there's lots of cases, there has to be some sort of triaging going on
[09:10:17 CEST] <thebombzen> james999: the argument for not allowing the lab techs to be called for cross-examination is that judges and lawyers and juries don't really have the scientific expertise to question the laboratory process
[09:11:04 CEST] <thebombzen> I happen to disagree with that. I think being able to cross-examine is still relevant and lawyers just shouln't ask technical questions that require too much background knowledge. in this case "faking data" is an easy concept to udnerstand even ifyou're not a lab technician
[09:11:16 CEST] <thebombzen> but that was the argument that the other side presented
[09:12:35 CEST] <thebombzen> also
[09:14:16 CEST] <thebombzen> c3r1c3-Win: you mentioned in February that there was no ETA on the replay buffer in "advanced mode" for OBS. Has this changed in the last three months or is there still no update on the progress
[09:14:33 CEST] <furq> is this the annie dookhan case or is this something new
[09:15:23 CEST] <c3r1c3-Win> No progress that I know of, thebombzen. That said, I know that Jim wants to release 19.0 in about 2 weeks, so you might be able to ask him about trying to get it on for 19.0
[09:15:53 CEST] <thebombzen> furq: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/stunning-drug-lab-scandal-could-upend-23-000-convictions-n739626
[09:16:10 CEST] <thebombzen> c3r1c3-Win: is there a changelog? is there a way for me to betatest?
[09:16:10 CEST] <furq> yes, then
[09:16:33 CEST] <furq> this has been going on for years
[09:16:51 CEST] <thebombzen> yea
[09:16:57 CEST] <furq> bloody trinidadians
[09:17:01 CEST] <thebombzen> hm?
[09:17:19 CEST] <furq> she's from trinidad
[09:17:25 CEST] <c3r1c3-Win> theYou would have to ask Jim to add it, and if agrees, he would push the code for testing to a repo branch. Since he has not mentioned it (nor has anyone else in dev-land) I can only assume that it won't be in for 19.0 unless someone asks him and he agrees.
[09:17:39 CEST] <thebombzen> furq: she's a US citizen
[09:17:42 CEST] <c3r1c3-Win> thebombzen: ^
[09:17:47 CEST] <furq> she's still from trinidad
[09:17:53 CEST] <thebombzen> but she's American
[09:18:01 CEST] <furq> Annie Dookhan was born Annie Sadiyya Khan in San Fernando, Trinidad and Tobago in 1977.[3] She moved to the United States when she was a child and eventually became a citizen.
[09:18:05 CEST] <thebombzen> yes
[09:18:15 CEST] <furq> then what are you even saying
[09:18:20 CEST] <thebombzen> I think you realize this, but that last sentence means she's American
[09:18:28 CEST] <furq> why are you telling me this
[09:18:35 CEST] <thebombzen> [03:16:57] <furq> bloody trinidadians
[09:18:35 CEST] <james999> yes it is Annie Dookhan. I'm surprised you mentioned her by name.
[09:18:38 CEST] <furq> yes
[09:18:41 CEST] <furq> she is from trinidad
[09:18:53 CEST] <james999> releasing 23,000 prisoners at once is insane. but i guess they're doing it
[09:18:58 CEST] <thebombzen> well yes but in the US we call people who moved her permanently "Americans."
[09:19:04 CEST] <thebombzen> here*
[09:19:19 CEST] <furq> well then stop it
[09:19:56 CEST] <furq> anyway it's good that they're actually doing something about this
[09:19:58 CEST] <thebombzen> c3r1c3-Win: this implies someone has written the code and it's still in testing right
[09:20:11 CEST] <furq> even if it's taken two years since they found out she was full of shitr
[09:20:58 CEST] <thebombzen> otherwise, is there a 19.0 changelog I can look at?
[09:21:10 CEST] <thebombzen> or a release candidate I can test?
[09:21:10 CEST] <james999> the really crazy part is she's already out of jail
[09:21:14 CEST] <c3r1c3-Win> thebombzen: There is no advanced mode code for replay that I know of. You'll have to ask Jim where he is on it and what his timeline is.
[09:21:19 CEST] <furq> lol
[09:21:29 CEST] <furq> of course she would get out before the people she had falsely imprisoned
[09:21:35 CEST] <james999> right i was about to say that lol
[09:21:52 CEST] <james999> it took them less time to let her go than to let the others go
[09:22:23 CEST] <james999> plus you kinda have to wonder about the people running those labs.
[09:22:29 CEST] <thebombzen> c3r1c3-Win: hm, okay. are there nightly builds by the way?
[09:22:29 CEST] <furq> i want to know how there are still 21,000 people in jail for low-level drug charges based on evidence from before 2013
[09:22:45 CEST] <james999> if somebody is working 4x as good as everybody else... that's usually an indicator of fraud of some sort
[09:22:46 CEST] <thebombzen> furq: because US drug policy sucks ass
[09:22:51 CEST] <furq> in massachusetts
[09:23:02 CEST] <furq> i mean if it was alabama or one of those hellholes then i could understand
[09:23:27 CEST] <c3r1c3-Win> thebombzen: There are not. Not surprising given that there are no daily merges and all work is done in branches, tested and completed before being merged into main.
[09:23:28 CEST] <james999> furq: you have an interesting notion of what constitutes a hellhole!
[09:23:43 CEST] <thebombzen> ah okay, I'll have to wait two weeks for new features then
[09:23:50 CEST] <furq> missouri then
[09:24:01 CEST] <furq> whichever is the worst deep south state
[09:24:06 CEST] <thebombzen> missouri is not a deep south state
[09:24:10 CEST] <thebombzen> you're thinking of mississippi
[09:24:16 CEST] <thebombzen> and it's that
[09:24:39 CEST] <james999> i mean i have friends that commute to Massachusetts for work and traffic is a nightmare
[09:24:48 CEST] <thebombzen> where do you they live
[09:24:50 CEST] <furq> is traffic related to drug policy
[09:24:53 CEST] <james999> not even joking, if you signal for a turn then people will cut you off
[09:25:01 CEST] <thebombzen> drug trafficking
[09:25:02 CEST] <thebombzen> get it
[09:25:03 CEST] <thebombzen> pun
[09:25:10 CEST] <james999> it's crazy. traffic = hellhole in boston
[09:25:18 CEST] <james999> XD
[09:25:19 CEST] <thebombzen> you think boston traffic is bad lol
[09:25:22 CEST] <thebombzen> you should see LA
[09:25:30 CEST] <thebombzen> james999: what city are you in
[09:25:45 CEST] <furq> thebombzen: i don't get it
[09:25:47 CEST] <furq> could you explain it
[09:25:51 CEST] <thebombzen> No
[09:25:59 CEST] <james999> the_bombzen: one of the "hellholes" that furq mentioned rofl
[09:26:04 CEST] <james999> not alabama though
[09:26:11 CEST] <thebombzen> are you in St. Louis?
[09:26:17 CEST] <furq> i'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before i recognise missouri
[09:26:27 CEST] <furq> that's literally everything i know about missouri
[09:26:31 CEST] <james999> haha no. but compared to boston traffic accidents are way lower where i live
[09:26:35 CEST] <thebombzen> well yes
[09:26:50 CEST] <thebombzen> boston is a more dense city than every city in Missouri, including St. Louis
[09:26:51 CEST] <james999> o
[09:27:02 CEST] <thebombzen> Boston is huge af
[09:27:07 CEST] <thebombzen> that doesn't surprise me at all
[09:27:11 CEST] <james999> i'm trying to say that there's lots of factors to determining how crappy a place to live is
[09:27:26 CEST] <thebombzen> well traffic makes boston bad unless you don't use a car
[09:27:30 CEST] <thebombzen> boston actually has public transit
[09:27:45 CEST] <thebombzen> I'm from Cleveland which has fake ass public transit. it's not practical to live in cleveland without a car
[09:28:05 CEST] <thebombzen> or rather it's possible but a pain in the ass
[09:28:30 CEST] <furq> if boston is anything like boston then i agree that it fucking sucks
[09:28:48 CEST] <thebombzen> people who say boston fucking sucks have not been to Dallas
[09:28:51 CEST] <thebombzen> truly bad city
[09:29:00 CEST] <furq> i don't know if boston fucking sucks
[09:29:02 CEST] <furq> but boston fucking sucks
[09:29:11 CEST] <atomnuker> people who say a certain state sucks haven't been to many states
[09:29:16 CEST] <atomnuker> they all suck
[09:29:26 CEST] <thebombzen> some suck a lot more than others
[09:29:33 CEST] <thebombzen> kansas is pretty fucking awful
[09:30:00 CEST] <thebombzen> of all the states I have been two, kansas is my least favorite
[09:30:02 CEST] <thebombzen> by far
[09:30:13 CEST] <atomnuker> I can't really blame anyone who hasn't been to many states though
[09:30:19 CEST] <furq> Boston residents voted strongly (76% with 77% participation) in favour of leaving the European Union on 23 June 2016, this was the strongest such vote in the country.
[09:30:23 CEST] <atomnuker> you know, lack of public transport, they probably walk
[09:30:25 CEST] <furq> see
[09:30:27 CEST] <furq> what a shithole
[09:30:35 CEST] <james999> by the way, fun fact about the supreme court. apparently they were 1 vote in a 5-4 ruling to overturn Roe v Wade. But Kennedy flipped at the last minute. This is how the courts work. -_-
[09:30:49 CEST] <thebombzen> "kennedy flipped at the last minute" LOLOLOL
[09:30:52 CEST] <thebombzen> where have I heard that before
[09:31:07 CEST] <thebombzen> I should look that up
[09:31:31 CEST] <james999> it's insane that law affecting millions of people can depend on one guy changing his mind at the last minute on something but there ya go.
[09:31:49 CEST] <thebombzen> okay so I just looked it up
[09:31:52 CEST] <thebombzen> Roe v Wade was 7-2
[09:32:07 CEST] <thebombzen> Rhenquist and White dissented
[09:32:20 CEST] <furq> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzybAS7zltE&t=4
[09:32:22 CEST] <james999> i'm talking PP v Casey which could have overturned it but didn't.
[09:32:43 CEST] <thebombzen> oh overturning roe v wade
[09:32:49 CEST] <thebombzen> thebombzen: learn to read
[09:32:50 CEST] <furq> roe v wade is the good bill which is good, right
[09:32:57 CEST] <thebombzen> not a bill
[09:33:01 CEST] <furq> case, then
[09:33:38 CEST] <thebombzen> it's the ruling that extended the 4th amendment constitutional right to privacy to a woman's right to choose
[09:34:16 CEST] <thebombzen> specifically, it extended the constitutional right to privacy in that the government cannot ban abortions (of nonviable fetuses)
[09:34:30 CEST] <james999> according to wikipedia it was surprisingly nuanced. defining different rights depending on early, middle, or late-stage pregnancy when state interest became more compelling to restrict it.
[09:34:41 CEST] <furq> warren burger
[09:34:43 CEST] <furq> mmm...burger
[09:35:07 CEST] <james999> was he same that covered up JFK? name sounds familiar
[09:35:25 CEST] <furq> idk i only know his name because homer simpson said it and then i typed the thing he said just now
[09:35:32 CEST] <thebombzen> ted kennedy is part of the kennedy family yea
[09:35:37 CEST] <thebombzen> same family that JFK was part of
[09:35:44 CEST] <furq> the kennedy family
[09:35:59 CEST] <thebombzen> yea there's a lot of people related to JFK who are all in political positions
[09:36:11 CEST] <thebombzen> RFK his brother, ran for president against Johnson (and was assassinated)
[09:36:16 CEST] <thebombzen> nvm against Nixon
[09:36:24 CEST] <thebombzen> you know what I don't remember
[09:36:38 CEST] <james999> by some crazy palestinian in a restaurant kitchen if memory serves
[09:36:45 CEST] <james999> i'm not sure why i remember some facts and not others...
[09:36:54 CEST] <furq> because you've forgotten the others
[09:37:31 CEST] <thebombzen> nvm I'm thinking of Anthony Kennedy
[09:37:33 CEST] <thebombzen> who is the justice
[09:37:40 CEST] <thebombzen> Ted Kennedy is the former massachussets senator
[09:38:08 CEST] <james999> furq: was that brexit vote in boston a joke? 77% voting to leave the EU... lol
[09:38:28 CEST] <furq> no
[09:38:32 CEST] <furq> that's about right
[09:38:48 CEST] <furq> boston is a proper shithole
[09:38:52 CEST] <furq> that whole county needs to fuck off
[09:39:09 CEST] <james999> they should do a poll for the french election next. curious to see how many mass people can name the candidates
[09:39:22 CEST] <furq> macron and le pen
[09:39:34 CEST] <furq> and some people who weren't racist enough to make it to the second round
[09:40:11 CEST] <furq> i enjoy how brazen the russian hackers are now
[09:40:39 CEST] <james999> i just want to see how many polled actually know anything about them.
[09:40:47 CEST] <james999> if 77% of them want to leave the EU... <snicker>
[09:41:06 CEST] <thebombzen> well it's not realistic to pull Boston people about a decision about britain leaving the EU
[09:41:19 CEST] <furq> i'm enjoying this misunderstanding but it's time to stop it
[09:41:22 CEST] <furq> there is more than one boston
[09:41:44 CEST] <thebombzen> I assume you're not talking about Boston, OH
[09:41:48 CEST] <thebombzen> is there a boston in England or something?
[09:41:48 CEST] <furq> you might not know this, but a lot of places in america are named after places in england
[09:41:53 CEST] <james999> oh damn. i was hoping bostonians would be stupid enough to vote to leave a union they aren't part of. ^_^
[09:42:05 CEST] <furq> for example, "new england"
[09:42:16 CEST] <thebombzen> Boston Township Ohio is not named after Boston, England
[09:42:17 CEST] <furq> which is actually named after england
[09:42:33 CEST] <thebombzen> I think the English's favorite pastime is accusing Americans of being dumb
[09:42:40 CEST] <thebombzen> and then they voted to leave the EU
[09:42:41 CEST] <furq> that's not true
[09:42:44 CEST] <furq> it's knowing that they are
[09:43:09 CEST] <furq> also i have never said anything about the english not being a bunch of twats
[09:43:24 CEST] <furq> i'm embarrassed to be one
[09:43:27 CEST] <thebombzen> you haven't said anything at all about the English
[09:43:37 CEST] <thebombzen> you spend all of your time complaining about Americans
[09:43:46 CEST] <james999> last news story i read about england that wasn't brexit related was the highest condom purchasing city in england. durham... or dunland? something like that
[09:43:47 CEST] <furq> well let's be honest, it's mostly your fault
[09:44:05 CEST] <thebombzen> it's not my fault you are complaining about me
[09:44:08 CEST] <furq> also it's probably durham on account of the other place doesn't exist
[09:44:33 CEST] <thebombzen> in fact you don't have to be up at 8:45 a.m. complaining about Americans on freenode
[09:45:12 CEST] <furq> or do i
[09:45:31 CEST] <james999> it was a fluff piece about condoms or how it was one city in england where ppl had the most sex iirc.
[09:45:54 CEST] <james999> i'm guessing it wasn't scotland at least so it had to be in the south
[09:45:58 CEST] <furq> also boston township, OH is named after boston, MA
[09:46:04 CEST] <furq> so it is named after boston, lincolnshire
[09:46:17 CEST] <furq> the worst of all bostons
[09:46:57 CEST] <furq> also why would you guess it wasn't scotland
[09:47:02 CEST] <james999> furq: so england has cities named York, Jersey, Haven, and Foundland?
[09:47:21 CEST] <furq> jersey isn't a city, it's an island
[09:47:24 CEST] <james999> just wildly speculating. lol
[09:47:25 CEST] <furq> and it's not technically part of england
[09:47:38 CEST] <furq> it's a crown dependency or one of those bullshit things
[09:48:11 CEST] <james999> speaking of the crown. my boston friend told me the other day the english crown is descended from transylvanian nobility
[09:48:15 CEST] <furq> and yes there are several places called haven
[09:48:19 CEST] <james999> something about gotha-saxeburg
[09:48:29 CEST] <furq> that's probably right
[09:48:33 CEST] <james999> i believe dracula's name came up as well
[09:48:47 CEST] <furq> the windsors are all germans, and prince philip is greek
[09:48:57 CEST] <furq> so there's probably some vampire blood in there somewhere
[09:48:59 CEST] <thebombzen> all the european royalty are all related
[09:49:03 CEST] <furq> more or less
[09:49:16 CEST] <furq> A member of the House of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg, Philip was born into the Greek and Danish royal families.
[09:49:28 CEST] <furq> look at that good old british name
[09:49:37 CEST] <james999> if you want a tv show about nobility try "The Tudors". it was popular for awhile here in the US.
[09:50:05 CEST] <james999> king henry was potrayed as a greek god like physique, and not his actual fat sickly pnysique.
[09:50:07 CEST] <furq> i'm just impressed you don't think that was a documentary filmed this year
[09:51:08 CEST] <james999> lol about what, the House of Tudor and how the current Tudor queen is ruling? actually scratch that, you could probably poll ppl in boston and get them to agree to that. :D
[09:51:22 CEST] <furq> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locations_in_the_United_States_with_an_English_name#Ohio
[09:51:25 CEST] <furq> looking good thebombzen
[09:51:41 CEST] <furq> although we had the good sense to get rid of cleveland
[09:51:58 CEST] <thebombzen> cleveland was not named after Cleveland, England
[09:52:44 CEST] <thebombzen> it was named after Moses Cleveland, a dude from connecticut who founded the city
[09:52:50 CEST] <furq> cleaveland
[09:52:52 CEST] <james999> "Bridgewater, Bristol, Canterbury, Chatham, Chesham, Chester, Chichester". yikes
[09:52:54 CEST] <thebombzen> Cleveland
[09:52:59 CEST] <thebombzen> the city is spelled Cleveland
[09:53:00 CEST] <furq> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses_Cleaveland
[09:53:11 CEST] <furq> also i assume it was a george washington thing
[09:53:26 CEST] <furq> wikipedia doesn't say though
[09:53:32 CEST] <thebombzen> A "George Washington" thing
[09:53:42 CEST] <furq> yes
[09:53:53 CEST] <james999> kind of funny NH has a plaistow in it. I was just reading a story the other day about that
[09:53:55 CEST] <furq> washington is named after george washington who was named after washington, tyne and wear
[09:54:22 CEST] <furq> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f1/John_Washington_plaque.JPG/800px-John_Washington_plaque.JPG
[09:54:46 CEST] <furq> another shithole, it's important to mention
[09:55:34 CEST] <thebombzen> he was actually named after a person
[09:55:38 CEST] <thebombzen> not after Washington Tyne and Wear
[09:56:35 CEST] <james999> furq: have you encountered a person whose only knowledge of the UK comes from harry potter?
[09:56:52 CEST] <furq> i've tried my best not to
[09:58:04 CEST] <thebombzen> especially if they read the Americanized version of the books
[09:58:12 CEST] <thebombzen> where they translate british slang into american slang so we can understand it
[09:58:22 CEST] <james999> they must exist just on pure numbers. that shit sold like crazy both sides of the sea
[09:58:28 CEST] <furq> i didn't think it was possible to make those books any worse
[09:58:36 CEST] <furq> i should never underestimate america
[09:58:37 CEST] <thebombzen> the harry potter books were great
[09:58:53 CEST] <james999> thebombzen: they changed slang?
[09:58:59 CEST] <furq> they're great if you're cold and in the wilderness and you need to make a fire
[09:59:18 CEST] <thebombzen> james999: yea. the scholastic version of the books changed british terms like "jumper" to American "sweater"
[09:59:22 CEST] <thebombzen> "bogey" to "booger"
[09:59:24 CEST] <thebombzen> that sort of thing
[09:59:40 CEST] <thebombzen> the only one they didn't was mum -> mom, because rowling insisted on keeping that one
[10:00:02 CEST] <james999> hmm. did they change "snogging" to "smooching"/"kissing"?
[10:00:09 CEST] <furq> i'm really upset that i know this now
[10:00:40 CEST] <furq> maybe it's time to take up heroin
[10:00:46 CEST] <furq> i've heard good things
[10:01:01 CEST] <james999> i actually never read the books, listened on audiobook. and i remember hearing some uk slang.
[10:01:33 CEST] <furq> "ow, ron, i'd fuckin smash her back doors in like," exclaimed harry
[10:01:36 CEST] <james999> furq: it's an epidemic in new england. people found dead in mcdonald's bathrooms etc
[10:02:01 CEST] <thebombzen> james999: here's a quick example
[10:02:02 CEST] <thebombzen> https://www.hp-lexicon.org/2001/08/25/differences-between-british-and-us-versions-of-ps/
[10:02:31 CEST] <furq> i didn't know mcdonalds served heroin
[10:03:24 CEST] <furq> american slang is all fucked anyway
[10:03:28 CEST] <furq> like you call it "micky Ds"
[10:03:32 CEST] <furq> how am i supposed to understand that
[10:03:36 CEST] <furq> everyone knows it's "macky Ds"
[10:04:37 CEST] <thebombzen> I don't call it that
[10:04:47 CEST] <james999> apparently there are US and UK audio editions of the books.. o_0
[10:05:00 CEST] <thebombzen> yea. probably reading the british and us versions
[10:05:01 CEST] <james999> i'm mildly annoying i can't recall which one I listened to
[10:05:06 CEST] <furq> does stephen fry read the american one in an american accent
[10:05:13 CEST] <thebombzen> Philosopher's Stone or Sorcerer's Stone is the usual catch
[10:05:27 CEST] <furq> or is it the american equivalent of stephen fry
[10:05:28 CEST] <james999> no it's some guy named Jim Dale
[10:05:28 CEST] <thebombzen> furq: there's no such thing as an "American Accent"
[10:05:30 CEST] <furq> guy fieri
[10:05:40 CEST] <furq> yes there is
[10:05:42 CEST] <thebombzen> in the same way that there's no such thing as a "British Accent"
[10:05:52 CEST] <thebombzen> there's like several british accents and there's several American accents
[10:05:53 CEST] <furq> it's like this: yee-haw pardner whazzaaaaaap
[10:05:59 CEST] <thebombzen> that's a Texas accent
[10:06:00 CEST] <james999> thebombzen: yeah i'm paranoid now, was it philosopher stone or sorcerer stone lol
[10:06:18 CEST] <furq> i'm gon' get me some grits boy howdy
[10:06:27 CEST] <thebombzen> I don't even know what grits is
[10:06:38 CEST] <thebombzen> it's like some southern gross mush isn't it
[10:06:47 CEST] <furq> it's what you put on icy roads
[10:06:49 CEST] <james999> i have some in my pantry. they're like a wheat mush
[10:06:56 CEST] <thebombzen> we put Salt on icy roads
[10:07:01 CEST] <thebombzen> not oatmeall
[10:07:12 CEST] <thebombzen> or rather not wheatmeal
[10:07:33 CEST] <thebombzen> although it depends on where you are
[10:07:45 CEST] <thebombzen> if you live in the northern midwest, you put lots of rock salt on your roads
[10:08:03 CEST] <james999> what even is the american equivalent of stephen fry. all i know is his wiki bio says he's a gaytheist from britain
[10:08:07 CEST] <thebombzen> if you live in north carolina you flip the fuck out and panic and close everything and hide in your hideyhole if you get snow
[10:08:14 CEST] <thebombzen> who is Stephen Fry
[10:08:30 CEST] <furq> he's the english guy fieri
[10:08:41 CEST] <james999> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_fry
[10:09:18 CEST] <thebombzen> I mean I can look him up on wikipedia too
[10:09:34 CEST] <thebombzen> also the description on wikipedia is nothing like guy fieri
[10:26:03 CEST] <james999> well after listening to samples of both fry and dale on youtube... i still don't know
[10:26:30 CEST] <james999> but my guess is i heard fry because the clip of the american reader had some silly music intro
[10:27:05 CEST] <thebombzen> furq btw you asked before about having all your applications look the same
[10:27:08 CEST] <thebombzen> see this https://0x0.st/Yuu.png
[10:27:18 CEST] <thebombzen> qt allows you to set GTK style
[10:27:52 CEST] <james999> i guess i just glossed over all the britisy slang? like jacket potato, car park and "sellotape"
[10:30:51 CEST] <james999> only way to find out for sure woudld be to listen to all of harry potter over again and see if the word "snog" gets replaced or not.
[10:30:58 CEST] <james999> and i'm not doing that. lol.
[10:31:41 CEST] <thebombzen> snogging is used in the American version though
[10:31:49 CEST] <thebombzen> so that test won't work
[10:31:50 CEST] <james999> well shit
[13:32:50 CEST] <kerio> weird, comconsole_pcidev stopped working
[15:02:05 CEST] <mattwj2002> hi guys
[15:02:12 CEST] <mattwj2002> I could use some kind assistance
[15:02:36 CEST] <mattwj2002> what would be the command syntax for trying out hardware acceleration using an NVIDIA graphics card
[15:02:37 CEST] <mattwj2002> :)
[15:02:54 CEST] <mattwj2002> h265 please
[15:04:53 CEST] <mattwj2002> hevc_nvenc  ?
[15:06:47 CEST] <c_14> en or decoding?\
[15:07:10 CEST] <mattwj2002> encoding
[15:07:16 CEST] <c_14> yeah, that
[15:07:21 CEST] <c_14> -c:v hevc_nvenc
[15:08:54 CEST] <mattwj2002> c_14: h265 format?
[15:09:02 CEST] <mattwj2002> how would I specify that
[15:10:08 CEST] <mattwj2002> I am sure these sound like noob questions
[15:10:10 CEST] <mattwj2002> :-s
[15:10:58 CEST] <kerio> yes they do
[15:11:11 CEST] <kerio> anyway, that's hevc_nvenc
[15:11:16 CEST] <kerio> i assume there's a h264_nvenc for h.264
[15:13:45 CEST] <c_14> kerio: I think it's just called nvenc for h264
[15:13:55 CEST] <c_14> mattwj2002: just use a format like mp4 or mkv?
[15:13:58 CEST] <c_14> Or do you want raw h265?
[15:15:04 CEST] <mattwj2002> c_14: yes
[15:15:12 CEST] <mattwj2002> mp4 please
[15:15:14 CEST] <mattwj2002> :)
[15:15:35 CEST] <c_14> ffmpeg -i video -c:v hevc_nvenc out.mp4
[15:17:34 CEST] <mattwj2002> Cannot init CUDA
[15:17:34 CEST] <mattwj2002> Error initializing output stream 0:0 -- Error while opening encoder for output stream #0:0 - maybe incorrect parameters such as bit_rate, rate, width or height
[15:17:41 CEST] <mattwj2002> I think I need to install cuda
[15:17:58 CEST] <mattwj2002> does anyone know the location of the nvida and cuda ppa in ubuntu?
[15:19:50 CEST] <BtbN> you need to install the nvidia driver, nothing else.
[15:20:05 CEST] <BtbN> increase the log level, and it will likely tell you what went wrong
[15:22:05 CEST] <mattwj2002> working on that now
[15:22:06 CEST] <mattwj2002> :)
[15:22:22 CEST] <mattwj2002> thanks for being nice to a noob like myself :D
[15:22:58 CEST] <mattwj2002> I can't talk real long
[15:23:03 CEST] <mattwj2002> I have a party to go to
[16:07:07 CEST] <faLUCE> iive: thanks for your feedback to the mailing list. This is for other people too:  http://ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2017-May/210971.html  if you find this example useful, please send a msg to the mailing list in order to re-consider itù
[16:07:17 CEST] <faLUCE> s/itù/it
[16:29:02 CEST] <mattwj2002> hi guys
[16:29:30 CEST] <mattwj2002> does a Quadro 600 support hevc_nvenc?
[16:36:40 CEST] <c_14> https://developer.nvidia.com/video-encode-decode-gpu-support-matrix
[16:37:19 CEST] <kerio> unlimited number of streams? :o
[16:37:28 CEST] <kerio> infinite teraflops confirmed
[16:38:37 CEST] <ChocolateArmpits> I think that means how many encodings are allowed per gpu
[16:40:48 CEST] <kerio> INFINITE TERAFLOPS
[16:41:19 CEST] <kerio> INFINIFLOPS
[17:18:38 CEST] <DHE> oh that's a useful page...
[17:19:15 CEST] <DHE> and I guess the rule is "quadros whose numbers are <2000 (not <=) only run 2 streams, otherwise it's unlimited"
[17:20:18 CEST] <DHE> kerio: it also recycles the generated heat for its own power source resulting in free electricity
[17:23:42 CEST] <BtbN> the cuda cores are not involved with nvenc at all
[17:24:44 CEST] <BtbN> kerio, of course the total number of fps is not infiite. They will evenly be distributed accross all streams.
[17:24:51 CEST] <BtbN> Consumer cards are artificially limited to two streams
[17:30:50 CEST] <DHE> nvidia claims the distribution of multiple streams is done well enough that the chip's total FPS throughput should be pretty constant summed across all encoding jobs. still, for realtime jobs you probably don't want more than 10 per chip
[17:31:17 CEST] <DHE> also note that there is a distinct column for number of nvenc chips
[18:30:09 CEST] <faLUCE> JEEB: I finally understood WHY ffplay uses separate threads for audio and video: because it doesn't have an event driven demuxer.
[19:33:23 CEST] <james999> faLUCE: you're the one with that tutorial05.c site right?
[19:34:34 CEST] <mrkillius24> I want to make a batch script for ffmpeg? Should I go to ##windows or can I ask here?
[19:35:08 CEST] <thebombzen> if you ask here you'll be able to get help on calling ffmpeg
[19:35:26 CEST] <thebombzen> someone might know batch but I don't
[19:35:42 CEST] <thebombzen> but you'll be able to get help on actually calling ffmpeg
[19:35:42 CEST] <mrkillius24> I've never used batch properly before, only bash.
[19:35:50 CEST] <thebombzen> lol on Windows I still use bash
[19:35:51 CEST] <thebombzen> comes with git
[19:36:02 CEST] <mrkillius24> It wouldn't help because I want to call on native files
[19:36:08 CEST] <dystopia_> mrkillius24 you should go to ##dos heh
[19:36:08 CEST] <mrkillius24> which bash on windows can't do
[19:36:14 CEST] <dystopia_> best batch help on freenode
[19:36:15 CEST] <thebombzen> call on native files?
[19:36:16 CEST] <thebombzen> huh?
[19:36:19 CEST] <thebombzen> what do you mean
[19:36:32 CEST] <mrkillius24> I want to change the container on a whole folder of files
[19:36:40 CEST] <mrkillius24> like their video container
[19:36:46 CEST] <dystopia_> you can do that with a for loop
[19:36:55 CEST] <thebombzen> well to actually call ffmpeg you can do "ffmpeg -i input.mp4 -c copy output.mkv"
[19:36:58 CEST] <thebombzen> or something similar
[19:37:09 CEST] <thebombzen> if you're doing mp4 to mkv that is
[19:37:13 CEST] <james999> i don't think dos has been on windows since vista
[19:37:16 CEST] <mrkillius24> I'm doing mkv to mp4
[19:37:39 CEST] <thebombzen> well for a single input.mkv file, you can do "ffmpeg -i input.mkv -c copy output.mp4"
[19:37:40 CEST] <mrkillius24> But I have multi tracked audio does the container change work flawlessly or do I need to specify the number of tracks?
[19:37:49 CEST] <thebombzen> if you have multiple audio tracks you'll have to do this:
[19:37:58 CEST] <thebombzen> ffmpeg -i input.mkv -map 0 -c copy output.mp4
[19:38:09 CEST] <mrkillius24> I see I see
[19:38:10 CEST] <thebombzen> -map 0 says "map all streams from the 0th input" (which is input.mkv)
[19:38:15 CEST] <thebombzen> -c copy says "codec-copy"
[19:38:51 CEST] <dystopia_> for %%f in (*.mp4) do "ffmpeg -i %%~nf.mp4 -c copy %%~nf.mkv"
[19:39:07 CEST] <dystopia_> would process everything in a dir
[19:39:12 CEST] <thebombzen> in bash you would do it like this:
[19:40:03 CEST] <thebombzen> for file in *.mkv; do ffmpeg -i "$file" -map 0 -c copy "${file%.mkv}.mp4"; done
[19:40:10 CEST] <thebombzen> if you want ot use bash on windows
[19:40:11 CEST] <james999> what does the ~n do?
[19:40:28 CEST] <thebombzen> I think that truncates the extension
[19:41:12 CEST] <dystopia_> ~n is the file name
[19:41:58 CEST] <james999> isn't %%f the filename? i've written loops on windows b4 and don't recall that
[20:07:01 CEST] <ChocolateArmpits> % gets expanded when run from bat files
[20:07:27 CEST] <ChocolateArmpits> It is escaped by using %%
[20:07:47 CEST] <ChocolateArmpits> If you're running from the command line use a single %, inside of a bat file use double %%
[20:12:20 CEST] <mrkillius24> this is a lot more complicated that I thought it would be. I might have to end up learning powershell, is it truly that hard to get a script to read a folder take the files in them and then run ffmpeg on them to my output
[20:12:53 CEST] <james999> ChocolateArmpits: correct
[20:13:33 CEST] <james999> seems like you could just write %%f instead of $$~nf.mp4 to get the same result
[20:14:07 CEST] <james999> oh nvm lol
[20:14:18 CEST] <ChocolateArmpits> mrkillius24, what format are the files
[20:14:23 CEST] <ChocolateArmpits> that you want to convert
[20:14:31 CEST] <james999> now that i see the bash it makes more sense. weird syntax though
[20:14:45 CEST] <mrkillius24> mkv . I want to spit out mp4 with multi track audio, and split them after 15 minutes
[20:15:11 CEST] <hiihiii> hello
[20:15:14 CEST] <mrkillius24> hi
[20:15:20 CEST] <ChocolateArmpits> what do you mean by split, split every 15 minutes, or have two parts, one 15 minutes and other whatever length there is after ?
[20:15:40 CEST] <mrkillius24> The file itself after it's changed to mp4, I would like it to be split every 15 minutes
[20:15:46 CEST] <mrkillius24> that are inside the file
[20:15:57 CEST] <mrkillius24> so the duration of one file is only 15 minutes
[20:16:01 CEST] <hiihiii> how do you skip/remove the first N frames from the beginning using a filter?
[20:16:21 CEST] <hiihiii> I'v found on forums that
[20:16:40 CEST] <hiihiii> -vf 'select=gte(n\,100)' will remove first 100 frames but there might be other implications
[20:20:56 CEST] <mrkillius24> ffmpeg -i input.mkv -map 0 -c copy -f segment -segment_time 900 -reset_timestamps 1 output.mp4, something like that except that it goes through the folder where the mkvs are on, and the output is my other folder
[20:21:36 CEST] <mrkillius24> I might have to use something like python for this
[20:23:48 CEST] <hiihiii> Python overkill
[20:23:51 CEST] <hiihiii> excel
[20:23:52 CEST] <mrkillius24> is it?
[20:24:23 CEST] <hiihiii> -ss hh:mm:ss -t 00:15:00
[20:24:54 CEST] <hiihiii> you'd change -ss every cell
[20:25:23 CEST] <hiihiii> if you don't know how then any other language is okay
[20:25:52 CEST] <hiihiii> I haven't bothered to use bash in a while so
[20:27:02 CEST] <hiihiii> not sure if there's an option/filter in ffmpeg specific for this
[20:35:39 CEST] <ChocolateArmpits> mrkillius24, here https://pastebin.com/1FFzv186
[20:35:43 CEST] <ChocolateArmpits> tried and tested
[20:36:00 CEST] <mrkillius24> that's in bash right?
[20:36:03 CEST] <ChocolateArmpits> powershell
[20:36:24 CEST] <ChocolateArmpits> two parameters, one for the folder the files are in, the other for your ffmpeg binary
[20:36:41 CEST] <mrkillius24> awesome
[20:37:33 CEST] <ChocolateArmpits> paste in the powershell window and click enter so the function gets registered
[20:37:43 CEST] <ChocolateArmpits> you can then use it like a normal cmdlet for the time of the session
[20:37:57 CEST] <mrkillius24> ahh
[20:40:13 CEST] <draean> If you're combining a video and audio live stream with ffmpeg, is there a way to make it seamlessly continue the video with silence if the audio drops out?
[20:40:30 CEST] <ChocolateArmpits> draean, try -longest
[20:40:31 CEST] <hiihiii> can I drop first frame only using fps???
[20:40:55 CEST] <ChocolateArmpits> oh wait that's not a command
[20:43:36 CEST] <hiihiii> fps=start_time=-1 maybe?
[20:44:14 CEST] <ChocolateArmpits> hiihiii, just use the select command
[20:45:20 CEST] <ChocolateArmpits> Also start_time operates on time values rather than frame values, so it won't always give exact trim of 1 frame
[20:45:34 CEST] <hiihiii> ChocolateArmpits: -vf 'select=gte(n\,1)'
[20:45:43 CEST] <ChocolateArmpits> hiihiii, yeah try that
[20:45:50 CEST] <hiihiii> what exactly gte stand for
[20:45:57 CEST] <ChocolateArmpits> greater than or equal to
[20:46:19 CEST] <hiihiii> ohh well that sounds like it will do
[20:46:22 CEST] <ChocolateArmpits> it's part of the expression evaluation to craft more fine controls https://ffmpeg.org/ffmpeg-utils.html#Expression-Evaluation
[20:46:34 CEST] <hiihiii> thx
[20:46:52 CEST] <ChocolateArmpits> I however don't know if ffmpeg treats first frame as frame 0 logically
[20:47:01 CEST] <ChocolateArmpits> so you may have to try inputting 2 too
[20:47:34 CEST] <hiihiii> I think I'll have to start with 0
[20:47:48 CEST] <ChocolateArmpits> WEll 0 will output everything that's for sure
[20:51:23 CEST] <mrkillius24> choco I pasted it in and powershell and nothing happens
[20:51:43 CEST] <ChocolateArmpits> do you know how to use functions or cmdlets ?
[20:52:00 CEST] <mrkillius24> I don't know how you enter arguments is it like (arg,arg2) like other things?
[20:52:06 CEST] <mrkillius24> I tried that
[20:52:35 CEST] <ChocolateArmpits> Convert-Files -Path C:\pathtomyfolder -Ffmpeg C:\PathtoFfmpeg
[20:53:04 CEST] <ChocolateArmpits> You can use tab completion
[20:53:06 CEST] <mrkillius24> doesn't ffmpeg create a custom variable to it's location?
[20:53:13 CEST] <ChocolateArmpits> what variable ?
[20:53:18 CEST] <mrkillius24> like $ffmpeg$ or something
[20:53:24 CEST] <mrkillius24> like a global windows variable
[20:53:32 CEST] <ChocolateArmpits> absolutely not
[20:54:09 CEST] <ChocolateArmpits> IF you register the folder ffmpeg is in with the global PATH scope then yes you'll have it available
[20:54:26 CEST] <faLUCE> james999: sorry for the late answer:  [19:33] <james999> faLUCE: you're the one with that tutorial05.c site right?   <--- yes
[20:54:38 CEST] <ChocolateArmpits> any other case, no
[20:56:52 CEST] <james999> faLUCE: i thought so. thanks for the reply!
[20:57:52 CEST] <faLUCE> james999: do you have news for that? :-)
[20:58:02 CEST] <faLUCE> I'm coding my own threadless player
[20:58:13 CEST] <james999> why does it matter if it uses threads
[20:58:34 CEST] <faLUCE> because it's nonsense to use threads (but lot of people will oppose to this idea)
[20:58:46 CEST] <faLUCE> threads, in ffplay, are used as a workaround
[20:59:11 CEST] <faLUCE> anyway, that tutorial example doesn't work anymore
[21:18:03 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> faluce what do you propose as an alternative to threads in order to spread a spreadable workload across and entire device?
[21:18:23 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> I mean, I realize threads introduce overhead
[21:18:35 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> and are useless when you don't fill up a single processing unit
[21:18:36 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> but still
[21:19:25 CEST] <faLUCE> kinkinkijkin: the alternative is simple: libevent.
[21:19:51 CEST] <faLUCE> I'm coding a http-mpegts player with libplayer
[21:20:15 CEST] <faLUCE> I already used it in the library I published
[21:20:16 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> I'm not clear on what libevent provides
[21:20:32 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> event-response rendering or something like that?
[21:20:34 CEST] <faLUCE> kinkinkijkin: look at that: https://github.com/paolo-pr/laav
[21:21:33 CEST] <faLUCE> kinkinkijkin: about the audio, there's a non-blocking event-driven play() functiion in alsa
[21:22:51 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> I'm not entirely clear how event-driven-ness spreads the workload... I should note I had to leave programming due to disability before leaving game-loops
[21:23:43 CEST] <faLUCE> kinkinkijkin: there'ìs not a workload
[21:24:01 CEST] <faLUCE> I'll do the same thing I did for encoding/muxing/streaming
[21:24:30 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> uh, I think we have different understandings of the word workload
[21:24:38 CEST] <faLUCE> what do you mean?
[21:24:38 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> please explain your understanding to me
[21:24:59 CEST] <faLUCE> I mean the computational load
[21:25:32 CEST] <cryptodechange> holy cow, so one source at crf=16 I get 12mbit, another I get 22mbit
[21:25:39 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> how would even-driven rendering remove computational load entirely? the rendering still needs to happen, which introduces a workload
[21:26:36 CEST] <faLUCE> kinkinkijkin: I'm working at that. Does sdl provide an event driven rendering?
[21:26:54 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> dunno, I never used SDL
[21:27:10 CEST] <faLUCE> I'm asking that in the SDL channel
[21:27:30 CEST] <faLUCE> if so, I don't have problems
[21:27:42 CEST] <faLUCE> otherwise, I have to use another render lib
[21:27:46 CEST] <faLUCE> otherwise, I have to use another rendering lib
[21:28:14 CEST] <furq> is it really that important
[21:28:20 CEST] <faLUCE> but it could be that rendering is so fast, with sdl, that it can work without events too
[21:28:28 CEST] <furq> you're probably going to be spinning up multiple threads for decoding etc anyway
[21:28:55 CEST] <faLUCE> furq: given that I did not need them for encoding, I suppose they are not necessary for deconding too
[21:30:37 CEST] <furq> by "you" i mean the process
[21:30:52 CEST] <faLUCE> furq: same answer
[21:31:16 CEST] <furq> i don't see you preventing x264 from using multiple threads in that lib
[21:31:48 CEST] <faLUCE> x264 threads are used internally. This is not my matter
[21:32:09 CEST] <faLUCE> It's logical that x264 uses threads internally
[21:32:26 CEST] <faLUCE> what is bad is when players and demuxers use threads for decoupling tasks
[21:41:26 CEST] <faLUCE> kinkinkijkin: what do you use for rendering?
[21:41:54 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> I use whatever the player I'm using uses
[21:42:09 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> I haven't written any meaningful code since 2013
[21:42:44 CEST] <faLUCE> kinkinkijkin: ok
[21:43:06 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> usually I set the renderer to OGL
[21:43:37 CEST] <faLUCE> I'm asking in the OGL channel too
[21:44:07 CEST] <faLUCE> there must be libraries with event-driven rendering
[21:44:23 CEST] <BtbN> Well, there is OpenGL and Vulkan
[21:44:29 CEST] <BtbN> neither are event driven
[21:44:40 CEST] <BtbN> Doesn't really make sense for rendering anyway
[21:44:56 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> ogl can handle event-driven renderers though, but I mainly set to ogl because I use gpu decoding
[21:45:22 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> and the player I currently use (mpv) requires ogl be used for gpu decoding iirc
[21:45:32 CEST] <faLUCE> [21:44] <BtbN> Doesn't really make sense for rendering anyway  <-- why?
[21:45:34 CEST] <BtbN> OpenGL doesn't care about events, as long as it get a sequential stream of commands it's happy
[21:45:42 CEST] <BtbN> Because you just draw on a screen
[21:45:45 CEST] <BtbN> no events happen there
[21:45:59 CEST] <faLUCE> BtbN: but is the rendering fast enough?
[21:46:07 CEST] <BtbN> Fast enough for what?
[21:46:25 CEST] <faLUCE> in order to avoid blocking the main process, when doing other stuff
[21:46:28 CEST] <BtbN> Rendering a single rect with a video texture on it? You'd need a pre-historic GPU to run into performance issues there
[21:46:32 CEST] <faLUCE> I have to process audio as well
[21:47:31 CEST] <BtbN> You usually put everything that's not directly related to rendering on a different thread, so it doesn't slow down rendering
[21:47:47 CEST] <faLUCE> BtbN: as said before, I don't want to use threads
[21:48:01 CEST] <faLUCE> then I wonder if is there an event driven rendering, in some lib
[21:48:06 CEST] <BtbN> well, that's completely your problem still.
[21:48:28 CEST] <BtbN> OpenGL has some blocking commands, it does not play well with an event loop
[21:48:54 CEST] <BtbN> And Vulkan was aggressively designed to be used from multiple threads
[21:49:18 CEST] <BtbN> like, you can prepare command queues on seperate threads, upload them, and then just execute them from the main thread
[21:50:14 CEST] <BtbN> I don't think you can easily integrate video rendering with Vulkan though, there is no interop available
[21:51:33 CEST] <mattwj2002> hi guys
[21:51:38 CEST] <mattwj2002> I could use some assistance
[21:53:18 CEST] <mattwj2002> ffmpeg -i input.mkv -c:v hevc_vaapi -f Matroska -c:a copy output.mkv
[21:53:35 CEST] <mattwj2002> MKp97KiW
[21:53:37 CEST] <mattwj2002> oops
[21:53:48 CEST] <mattwj2002> I get this https://pastebin.com/MKp97KiW
[21:54:27 CEST] <faLUCE> BtbN: in the sdl channel they told me the correct answer:  [21:50] <slime> faLUCE: none of the rendering functions except for ReadPixels are truly blocking
[21:54:44 CEST] <faLUCE> [21:51] <slime> the rendering functions are just commands that tell the GPU what to do, this applies to any API that uses the GPU
[21:54:46 CEST] <faLUCE> [21:52] <slime> the GPU and graphics driver operates asynchronously to execute the work in a pipelined fashion
[21:54:54 CEST] <BtbN> all the texture upload commands are blocking
[21:54:54 CEST] <faLUCE> .... then, problem solved.
[21:55:09 CEST] <BtbN> And you are going to upload a lot of textures with video rendering
[21:55:16 CEST] <faLUCE> BtbN: [21:53] <MrFlibble> slime: glDrawArrays blocks
[21:55:28 CEST] <faLUCE> [21:53] <slime> MrFlibble: no it doesn't
[21:55:39 CEST] <BtbN> And I'm pretty sure there are quite a few special cases in OpenGL that block as well
[21:55:41 CEST] <faLUCE> [21:54] <slime> (the new graphics APIs like Vulkan expose the concept of this queue directly in the API, rather than having it be implicit)
[21:55:48 CEST] <BtbN> like, switching the buffers blocks, because vsync
[21:55:59 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> mattwj2002, I was getting that too, I forget how I solved it
[21:56:08 CEST] <mattwj2002> kinkinkijkin: hmmm
[21:56:13 CEST] <mattwj2002> any thoughts?
[21:56:47 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> are you using ffmpeg on a unixlike or windows?
[21:57:36 CEST] <mattwj2002> ubuntu linux
[21:58:49 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> what is your gpu?
[21:59:14 CEST] <mattwj2002> Quadro 600 nvidia
[21:59:35 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> nvidia gpu does not have vaapi support iirc
[21:59:46 CEST] <mattwj2002> kinkinkijkin: what does it support any thoughts?
[22:00:11 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> nvenc
[22:00:31 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> set up nvenc and try to encode with hevc_nvenc
[22:01:02 CEST] <mattwj2002> [hevc_nvenc @ 0x39a15c0] No NVENC capable devices found
[22:01:21 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> which driver are you using?
[22:01:28 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> I don't use an nvidia gpu so I'm shooting in the dark here
[22:01:54 CEST] <mattwj2002> NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-375.66.run
[22:02:09 CEST] <mattwj2002> cuda_8.0.61_375.26_linux.run
[22:02:14 CEST] <mattwj2002> I think
[22:02:15 CEST] <mattwj2002> hmmm
[22:02:22 CEST] <mattwj2002> maybe it is only cuda
[22:02:31 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> see if there's an nvenc driver you can download
[22:02:32 CEST] <mattwj2002> this is my first attempt at gpu encoding :)
[22:02:36 CEST] <mattwj2002> okay
[22:04:22 CEST] <mattwj2002> kinkinkijkin: maybe I should switch to windows?
[22:04:41 CEST] <draean> Heeeey, someone familiar with streaming ak to talk this problem out with me? I'm trying to be able to take in a stream, but tolerate it dropping out, and continue playing the other inputs.
[22:04:55 CEST] <mattwj2002> also would handbrake be easier for this application
[22:05:16 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> I know nvenc works on linux
[22:05:48 CEST] <mattwj2002> okay
[22:06:10 CEST] <mattwj2002> got any idea
[22:07:36 CEST] <mattwj2002> what does the --enable-nonfree switch do?
[22:08:17 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> lets you do stuff with non-foss libraries
[22:08:25 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> https://www.maketecheasier.com/nvidias-gpu-assisted-video-encoding-nvenc-work-ubuntu/ seems to be what works
[22:08:27 CEST] <mattwj2002> oh okay
[22:10:20 CEST] <BtbN> mattwj2002, don't run the .run installers. That's a good way to break your system
[22:10:28 CEST] <BtbN> Use your distributions package manager
[22:10:28 CEST] <mattwj2002> kinkinkijkin: if this works I'll buy you a beer
[22:10:34 CEST] <mattwj2002> thanks btbN
[22:10:40 CEST] <mattwj2002> I appreciate the heads up
[22:10:55 CEST] <BtbN> Ubuntu has the nvidia drivers packaged, there is no need to run those
[22:11:14 CEST] <BtbN> That guide is ancient, it's for ffmpeg 2.8
[22:11:18 CEST] <mattwj2002> okay BtbN
[22:11:42 CEST] <BtbN> nvenc changed a lot from then on. You don't need anything special anymore. Any normal ffmpeg build that doesn't explicitly disable nvenc will have it
[22:12:07 CEST] <BtbN> you also do not need the cuda SDK
[22:12:07 CEST] <mattwj2002> got ya
[22:13:27 CEST] <mattwj2002> this isn't for work anything
[22:13:31 CEST] <mattwj2002> this is just for fun :)
[22:13:59 CEST] <mattwj2002> I want to see if I can get it to go
[22:14:14 CEST] <mattwj2002> the graphics card was a freebie
[22:15:07 CEST] <mattwj2002> BtbN: so you agree nvenc is what I need for my graphics card?
[22:15:35 CEST] <BtbN> I have no clue what graphics card you even got, but as the name might suggest, nvenc is from and for nvidia only.
[22:15:45 CEST] <mattwj2002> quadro 600
[22:15:54 CEST] <mattwj2002> it isn't super new
[22:15:56 CEST] <BtbN> No idea what generation that is
[22:16:00 CEST] <BtbN> nvenc works since Kepler
[22:16:04 CEST] <mattwj2002> ok
[22:16:28 CEST] <mattwj2002> I believe mine is third generation
[22:17:07 CEST] <BtbN> hevc encoding is a thing since 2nd Gen Maxwell.
[22:17:15 CEST] <BtbN> "third generation"?
[22:17:34 CEST] <furq> the quadro 600 is fermi isn't it
[22:17:52 CEST] <BtbN> 600 or K600?
[22:17:55 CEST] <furq> assuming it's not a k600 which is different
[22:17:58 CEST] <furq> because naming things is easy
[22:18:09 CEST] <mattwj2002> 600 not 600k
[22:18:13 CEST] <mattwj2002> oops k600
[22:18:29 CEST] <BtbN> That's first gen Kepler, it has basic h264 support, nothing more
[22:19:12 CEST] <furq> the 600 is fermi, the k600 is kepler
[22:19:13 CEST] <mattwj2002> bummer
[22:19:19 CEST] <furq> so if it's the 600 then you're out of luck
[22:19:24 CEST] <mattwj2002> bummer
[22:19:58 CEST] Action: mattwj2002 is out of luck :(
[22:20:34 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> try h264_vaapi still
[22:20:47 CEST] <BtbN> there is no vaapi support from the official nvidia driver.
[22:20:54 CEST] <BtbN> h264_nvenc will work, for yuv420
[22:20:54 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> oh yeah
[22:21:13 CEST] <BtbN> hevc won't, yuv444 won't, lossless won't
[22:25:52 CEST] <bgv> Hi. I have a color split display issue with videos made with Ffmpeg for Instagram. Here is the result https://www.instagram.com/p/BTw3dGnBwe4/ and there is log and media https://we.tl/jZDVx95V0Z Thank you
[22:31:34 CEST] <mattwj2002> BtbN: would a quadro 960 do a better job?
[22:32:28 CEST] <BtbN> No clue, look at nvidias support matrix
[22:33:06 CEST] <mattwj2002> okay will do
[22:33:40 CEST] <mattwj2002> last question and I'll just hang out.....how is ATI for video encoding?  can any ATI do hardware video encoding
[22:34:05 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> yes
[22:34:07 CEST] <BtbN> They can, but the situation on linux is weird, and their Windows API is not implemented in ffmpeg.
[22:34:32 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> in linux you need to use the free driver, and not every codec actually supported by your card will be supported
[22:34:56 CEST] <BtbN> vaapi encoding on anything but Intel is not exactly well tested
[22:35:05 CEST] <BtbN> And the driver side implementation is also lacking
[22:35:40 CEST] <mattwj2002> okay thanks guys
[22:35:44 CEST] <mattwj2002> time to hang out :D
[22:37:11 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> on my gpu, b frames are not supported in h264
[22:37:28 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> in the driver
[22:37:35 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> but they are supported in the windows driver
[22:38:28 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> also, speaking of vaapi, what do I pass to h264_vaapi to make it act in CBR?
[22:39:01 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> everything I've tried either is invalid or I still get bloat from keyframes
[22:39:32 CEST] <BtbN> no video encoder supports true CBR
[22:39:35 CEST] <BtbN> not even x264
[22:39:42 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> well duh
[22:39:56 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> but how can I get it to pretend better?
[22:40:26 CEST] <BtbN> look at the code to check what parameters it supports, and see if there is one that looks like cbr/maxrate qp
[22:40:34 CEST] <mattwj2002> you guys have any ffmpeg recommended books?
[22:40:47 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> I can't read code anymore unfortunately
[22:41:25 CEST] <mattwj2002> ffmpeg o'reil maybe?
[22:43:29 CEST] <BtbN> Any book you might find will most likely be horribly outdated
[22:44:36 CEST] <BtbN> kinkinkijkin, http://git.videolan.org/?p=ffmpeg.git;a=blob;f=libavcodec/vaapi_encode_h264.c;h=92e29554edca58bc5b86e2e734c34132fd42e653;hb=HEAD#l1258
[22:44:36 CEST] <mattwj2002> okay
[22:45:18 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> I dunno how to set this though
[22:45:23 CEST] <BtbN> so basically, set -b and -maxrate to the same value, and it will enter cbr mode
[22:45:38 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> huh, I tried that before
[22:46:00 CEST] <BtbN> well, as I said, "cbr mode" is still most likely only a very rough cbr
[22:46:11 CEST] <BtbN> that's constant over longer periods of times at best
[22:51:07 CEST] <mattwj2002> I am off guys
[22:51:17 CEST] <mattwj2002> thanks for the kind assistanace
[22:51:18 CEST] <mattwj2002> :)
[22:51:23 CEST] <mattwj2002> byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
[22:51:24 CEST] <mattwj2002> :D
[22:52:35 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> how do I specify the keyframe interval?
[22:53:03 CEST] <BtbN> -g
[22:53:06 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> thanks
[22:53:34 CEST] <BtbN> it's in number of frames, not seconds or something
[22:55:35 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> I got that
[22:57:10 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> hmm, it seems to dump a keyframe every 5 seconds regardless of the settings
[22:57:43 CEST] <BtbN> vaapi h264?
[22:57:49 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> yep
[22:58:10 CEST] <BtbN> yeah, the vaapi_encode_h264.c file does not touch the variable it sets at all
[22:58:19 CEST] <BtbN> so I'd guess you can't influence the gop length
[22:58:46 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> darn
[22:59:04 CEST] <cryptodechange> Which would yield a higher bitrate on a grainy source? -tune film or grain?
[22:59:53 CEST] <BtbN> why do you want a higher bitrate?
[23:00:00 CEST] <cryptodechange> I don't
[23:00:15 CEST] <cryptodechange> Which would yield a lower bitrate from a grainy source*
[23:00:56 CEST] <BtbN> The only real answer there is try it and see
[23:01:21 CEST] <cryptodechange> I'm caught off guard here, two sources from 2016 released blurays
[23:01:34 CEST] <cryptodechange> crf=16, avg bitrate on one is 13mbps
[23:01:36 CEST] <cryptodechange> the other is 20mbps
[23:09:18 CEST] <furq> cryptodechange: what did you expect crf to do
[23:09:36 CEST] <furq> also grain will give a higher bitrate
[23:09:44 CEST] <furq> at least with everything i've ever tested
[23:13:32 CEST] <faLUCE> furq: are you from germany?
[23:13:41 CEST] <furq> i am not
[23:14:19 CEST] <faLUCE> furq: I thought that you were a german person who doesn't like Germany :-)
[23:18:34 CEST] <nyuszika7h> x264 CRF 18 gives me 1500 kbps average bitrate for a 720x576 DVD encoded 720x304 and 4000 kbps for a 720x576 TV broadcast encoded at 720x400 (both sources raw MPEG-2)... 4000 kbps is definitely way too high for SD
[23:20:09 CEST] <nyuszika7h> sure, I just bumped up the CRF to 21, but I don't quite get the point of CRF if it gives results out of sane bitrate bounds sometimes - it definitely isn't complex enough to bump up the bitrate that much beyond normally reasonable bounds
[23:20:42 CEST] <nyuszika7h> (I haven't really used anything else, my first encounter with encoding is H.264 CRF)
[23:21:34 CEST] <furq> the point is that it should give roughly the same quality across multiple sources
[23:21:41 CEST] <furq> rather than having to figure out what a good bitrate is every time
[23:21:52 CEST] <furq> if you get some unacceptably high bitrate then you probably want to denoise the source or something
[23:23:33 CEST] <nyuszika7h> I can't really see much noise but idk
[23:23:35 CEST] <grublet> CRF will definitely throw some crazy high bitrates out there if you have a source with a lot of complexity
[23:23:42 CEST] <grublet> happens with videogame captures too
[23:23:54 CEST] <grublet> nyuszika7h: do you have a sample or screenshot of the source?
[23:23:59 CEST] <nyuszika7h> yes one sec
[23:25:07 CEST] <nyuszika7h> I mean the only complexity I can think of is motion because it's a show about skating, but I don't know why it would cause THAT high bitrate
[23:25:23 CEST] <furq> denoising will also get rid of compression artifacts
[23:25:41 CEST] <furq> if it's a pdtv rip of a sports broadcast then i can imagine there's quite a lot of that
[23:26:03 CEST] <nyuszika7h> it's a scripted TV show, but it features skating
[23:26:20 CEST] <nyuszika7h> and yes it's a raw MPEG-2 rip from an SD channel
[23:26:32 CEST] <grublet> for what its worth, those bitrates you listed sound appropriate for those CRF settings, just from my own person experience messing with DVD sources
[23:26:47 CEST] <furq> yeah dvds usually use higher bitrates than pdtv
[23:26:51 CEST] <furq> at least halfdecent ones do
[23:27:34 CEST] <grublet> also if the framerate is higher on the broadcast, then the bitrate will definitely be higher
[23:27:46 CEST] <nyuszika7h> both are 25 fps PAL
[23:28:01 CEST] <grublet> okay then the only thing i could imagine is the visual complexity
[23:28:04 CEST] <furq> even if it was 50i and you were converting to 50p, it shouldn't cause that much of a spike
[23:28:18 CEST] <nyuszika7h> the DVD I tried with earlier was progressive according to MediaInfo for some reason, and I didn't see any interlacing artifacts either
[23:28:28 CEST] <nyuszika7h> and this is interlaced, I'm using yadif
[23:28:34 CEST] <furq> i usually deinterlace to 50p and it's like 10-20% bigger than 25p if you use good settings
[23:28:41 CEST] <grublet> if the video is really shaky, that can cause the btirate to go up because there's not as much temporal information to exploit
[23:28:48 CEST] <grublet> temporal similarity, i mean
[23:28:58 CEST] <furq> you might want to try a different deinterlacer
[23:29:26 CEST] <furq> bwdif is supposed to be better without being horrendously slow
[23:29:38 CEST] <grublet> furq: yeah goiod point
[23:29:52 CEST] <furq> i normally use qtgmc for sd mpeg2, but that's a lot of work to go through
[23:30:13 CEST] <grublet> nowadays i just say screw it and us Bob() in avisynth
[23:30:22 CEST] <furq> qtgmc is fantastic for sd mpeg2
[23:30:33 CEST] <furq> if you're dealing with high-bitrate 1080i sources then it doesn't really matter what you use
[23:31:36 CEST] <grublet> furq: why doesn't it matter?
[23:32:59 CEST] <furq> yadif gives perfectly adequate results for clean hd sources
[23:33:07 CEST] <furq> and yadif is pretty basic
[23:34:06 CEST] <grublet> a dumb bob is even basic-er
[23:34:13 CEST] <furq> sure
[23:34:23 CEST] <grublet> i usually dont notice the difference unless im looking at still frames
[23:34:41 CEST] <grublet> and doing fancy deint on 1080i is just like, nah forget that lol
[23:34:46 CEST] <furq> yeah
[23:34:56 CEST] <furq> qtgmc is already agonisingly slow on 576p
[23:34:59 CEST] <grublet> stuff like qtgmc is pretty fun to mess with
[23:35:06 CEST] <furq> or 576i rather
[23:35:47 CEST] <furq> the best thing about qtgmc is the mode that repairs badly deinterlaced stuff
[23:35:56 CEST] <furq> i've had properly amazing results with that
[23:36:46 CEST] <grublet> I liked using stuff like tempgaussmc/qtgmnc for deinterlacing stand up comedy dvds
[23:36:50 CEST] <ChocolateArmpits> The higher the resolution the less artifacts a deinterlacer has to account for
[23:37:05 CEST] <furq> right
[23:37:37 CEST] <furq> the really good deinterlacers excel with messy sources
[23:37:44 CEST] <furq> there's not much to get wrong with a clean source
[23:38:07 CEST] <ChocolateArmpits> I sometimes think because of this removing interlacing from 4K was quite stupid
[23:38:25 CEST] <grublet> Interlacing is something I've wanted to be gone since Blu-ray was new
[23:38:34 CEST] <furq> yeah i'm glad it's finally dying
[23:39:02 CEST] <BtbN> I don't get how it managed to survived for anything but the old SD formats
[23:39:14 CEST] <grublet> and I still think new formats should be using 4:4:4 instead of 4:2:0 for chroma
[23:39:19 CEST] <furq> i mean 1080i50 is nice for sport, and i'd take that over them dropping the bitrate
[23:39:22 CEST] <furq> but i'd take 720p50 over either
[23:39:56 CEST] <ChocolateArmpits> BtbN, HD was standartized back when digital TV wasn't even out in the public
[23:40:05 CEST] <grublet> BtbN: probably because most of the masters for sd and early HD stuff was stored as PsF on old tape storage formats
[23:40:09 CEST] <furq> and i still see some wonky artifacts on some devices with 1080i50 streams
[23:40:54 CEST] <furq> mostly shit like on-screen graphics that can't decide what line they're on
[23:41:13 CEST] <grublet> that's another thing i dont miss
[23:41:18 CEST] <grublet> mixed content
[23:41:28 CEST] <ChocolateArmpits> furq, that's because of deinterlacer
[23:41:31 CEST] <grublet> like 24p hard telecined with 60i stuff added to it
[23:41:37 CEST] <furq> yeah i know
[23:42:01 CEST] <furq> my point is that even good deinterlacers with 1080i50 sources still cause issues
[23:42:04 CEST] <grublet> doom9 is probably way less active now since blu-rays dont have that problem much now
[23:42:13 CEST] <furq> lol
[23:42:29 CEST] <furq> yeah mixed content is the bane of my fucking existence
[23:42:40 CEST] <furq> and i don't even have to deal with ntsc bullshit like mixed telecine and interlaced
[23:42:46 CEST] <grublet> makes me thankful i was never that into anime
[23:42:55 CEST] <grublet> oh yeah, im from the us
[23:43:15 CEST] <furq> it's bad enough with mixed progressive and interlaced on pal dvds
[23:43:28 CEST] <furq> but at least that all ends up the same framerate
[23:43:38 CEST] <grublet> at least with PAL film->tv is usually done with a speedup
[23:43:42 CEST] <furq> yeah
[23:43:54 CEST] <furq> except when it's done by scanning an ntsc rip
[23:43:59 CEST] <furq> in which case that dvd is going in the bin
[23:44:19 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> ah, h264_vaapi makes garbage on my gpu and driver right now
[23:44:20 CEST] <grublet> s/bin/garbage disposal
[23:44:21 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> wonderful
[23:44:28 CEST] <furq> we don't have garbage disposals in europe
[23:44:41 CEST] <furq> and i don't have a microwave
[23:44:41 CEST] <grublet> well you should for dvds like that lol
[23:44:43 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> we don't have them in canada either
[23:44:46 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> except for rich people
[23:44:49 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> really rich people
[23:44:50 CEST] <grublet> microwave is something i can live without
[23:44:55 CEST] <furq> same
[23:45:05 CEST] <furq> but it is nice to put infuriating discs in there
[23:45:08 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> microwave is something I need
[23:45:24 CEST] <grublet> i dont need it, but it sure makes eating much more likely to happen lol
[23:45:44 CEST] <grublet> its either that or pilfer whatever my roommates made
[23:45:46 CEST] <furq> don't you people heat up water in the microwave
[23:45:49 CEST] <furq> you savages
[23:46:01 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> I heat up water in the kettle
[23:46:04 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> or in a pot
[23:46:06 CEST] <grublet> thats what a kettle is for innit
[23:46:06 CEST] <furq> ok good
[23:46:09 CEST] <grublet> yeah what he said
[23:46:25 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> am grill, boil pots of water on my head
[23:46:35 CEST] <grublet> i have never seen a kettle in real life, i mean if you're boiling water here its probably on the stove
[23:46:40 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> please don't actually put a pot on a grill
[23:46:50 CEST] <furq> kettles aren't very popular in the us because of your dumb mains voltage
[23:47:13 CEST] <grublet> well, the US does a lot of dumb stuff, so im used to it
[23:47:46 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> higher AC rates increases heat generation too, you know
[23:47:49 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> iirc
[23:48:17 CEST] <furq> us power outlets can only put out 1800W
[23:48:22 CEST] <furq> which is not enough for a decent kettle
[23:48:38 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> wat, that's like
[23:48:41 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> a new house minimum
[23:48:49 CEST] <grublet> i was not aware of that 1800w limit, probably because ive never tried to use a kettle
[23:48:50 CEST] <furq> that's 120V at 15A
[23:49:08 CEST] <grublet> furq: pretty sure most of our breakers are around 15a
[23:49:21 CEST] <furq> apparently 15A is the legal limit
[23:49:32 CEST] <grublet> i think thats the limit for a single room
[23:49:33 CEST] <furq> but i'm reading this off a blog so it might be bullshit
[23:49:53 CEST] <grublet> well, most stuff on a breaker box here is 15a from what ive seen
[23:49:55 CEST] <BtbN> 230V at 16A is already quite limited
[23:49:57 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> I dunno what the limit is here in canada but I'm running way more than 1800w at times in my room, which has a single breaker
[23:50:04 CEST] <furq> 16?
[23:50:07 CEST] <furq> the limit is 13 here
[23:50:15 CEST] <BtbN> All our fuses are 16A
[23:50:16 CEST] <furq> that gives you about 3000W though, which is plenty for boiling water
[23:50:17 CEST] <grublet> here we use 220a for washer/dryer or other things like that
[23:50:17 CEST] <BtbN> 3600W
[23:50:27 CEST] <grublet> which idk
[23:50:32 CEST] <grublet> because our mcirowave is 1800w
[23:50:34 CEST] <furq> yeah that's on a separate circuit
[23:50:40 CEST] <grublet> and i know i run it at the same time as the mcirowave plenty of times
[23:50:47 CEST] <furq> wait what
[23:50:49 CEST] <furq> 1800w microwave?
[23:50:52 CEST] <furq> are you sure about that
[23:50:54 CEST] <grublet> thats what it says
[23:50:57 CEST] <grublet> 1.8kW
[23:51:01 CEST] <furq> that seems a bit insane
[23:51:08 CEST] <grublet> my grandparents had one that was 1250w
[23:51:10 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> never seen a microwave above 1.2kw
[23:51:15 CEST] <furq> i've never seen one higher than 1kW
[23:51:16 CEST] <grublet> well, i have lol
[23:51:22 CEST] <grublet> my old microwave was only 800w
[23:51:29 CEST] <BtbN> Well, the oven and stuff have their own 3-fuse-setup. 3 fuses, 360V, 16A. So those can use LOTS of power
[23:51:36 CEST] <grublet> BtbN: yeah i derped there
[23:51:45 CEST] <grublet> oven would be on 220v here
[23:51:49 CEST] <grublet> 240*
[23:51:51 CEST] <grublet> not 120
[23:52:17 CEST] <grublet> we dont use actual fuses here
[23:52:32 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> we use a mix of fuses and a breaker
[23:52:48 CEST] <BtbN> Well, they are all switch-based, only old installations still have melting fuses
[23:52:58 CEST] <grublet> some of the outlets here are fused, usually stuff like the bathroom outlet because of things like haidriers
[23:53:04 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> the breaker has a fuse on it that goes in case of when the breaker is being held on
[23:53:05 CEST] <grublet> thats what i meant
[23:53:08 CEST] <grublet> old style fuses
[23:53:40 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> outlets in the kitchen and bathroom have a second breaker on them
[23:53:44 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> but this one is not fused
[23:53:52 CEST] <grublet> yeah i was mistaken
[23:53:56 CEST] <grublet> ours have a second breaker, not fuse
[23:54:05 CEST] <BtbN> Our flat is ancient
[23:54:08 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> I'm in canada, wouldn't be surprised if it was different
[23:54:10 CEST] <BtbN> we have one outlet in every room
[23:54:15 CEST] <BtbN> and _all_ of them are on the same fuse
[23:54:19 CEST] <grublet> fuck that
[23:54:21 CEST] <BtbN> so we can only use 3600W, in the entire flat
[23:54:27 CEST] <furq> nice
[23:54:32 CEST] <BtbN> Two PCs, the fridge, TV, ...
[23:54:34 CEST] <BtbN> everything
[23:54:34 CEST] <grublet> that's something ive never had to do, worry about how many watts im using
[23:54:51 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> I live in government-owned housing so electrics are updated to be "good" every time a tenant leaves
[23:54:52 CEST] <grublet> i have a gaming pc with 2 monitors, guitar amnp, electric heater running at the same time
[23:54:54 CEST] <BtbN> The super stupid thing is, in the breaker box, we have one for every room
[23:54:56 CEST] <grublet> i would set your house on fire
[23:55:04 CEST] <BtbN> but the actual wiring doesn't allow that, so all but one of them are unused
[23:55:13 CEST] <BtbN> you would just blow the fuse
[23:55:20 CEST] <BtbN> that's the whole point of it
[23:55:33 CEST] <grublet> kinkinkijkin: government owned anything is generally a bad idea
[23:55:41 CEST] <grublet> BtbN: it was a joke
[23:55:47 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> local government provided housing for poor people
[23:55:58 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> specifically so that poor people can live in safe neighbourhoods
[23:56:01 CEST] <grublet> kinkinkijkin: my last place was subsidized, yeah
[23:56:03 CEST] <grublet> fuck that
[23:56:11 CEST] <grublet> had mold, shower didnt work for 6 months, etc
[23:56:22 CEST] <furq> lol
[23:56:30 CEST] <furq> i lived in my mate's council house for a few months years ago
[23:56:32 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> we're not talking about the same country tho
[23:56:34 CEST] <grublet> they had the nerve to evict me when i refused to pay rent
[23:56:36 CEST] <furq> the ceiling in the front room caved in
[23:56:41 CEST] <furq> it took them like three months to fix it
[23:56:49 CEST] <BtbN> From my experience, living in a house that's owned by some semi-public organization is way better, as they actually care about your well being, and not only about their profit
[23:56:51 CEST] <grublet> kinkinkijkin: so is government owned shit better over there
[23:56:56 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> all our stuff works, the only issues with this house were uninspectable at the last inspection or caused by us
[23:57:00 CEST] <BtbN> When I lived with a private landlord, he only fixed things when he absolutely had to
[23:57:00 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> yes grublet
[23:57:02 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> by a lot
[23:57:09 CEST] <grublet> 'well jokes on you this is america, the government doesnt care
[23:57:20 CEST] <BtbN> Here I call because of a slightly dripping water outlet, and the next day someone comes and fixes it
[23:57:24 CEST] <furq> i've had awful private landlords as well tbh
[23:57:36 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> by comparison, last privately-owned renting we did was in a slum, and the landlord didn't fix stuff
[23:57:39 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> even when he had to
[23:57:45 CEST] <grublet> mine was income based but also accepted section 8 i believe
[23:57:55 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> we got a roach and squirrel infestation, exposed wires
[23:57:58 CEST] <grublet> i wasnt even in a bad part of town
[23:58:07 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> a window broke at one point
[23:58:20 CEST] <kinkinkijkin> whole place smelled of cigarettes
[23:58:23 CEST] <furq> one time they were installing new gas pipes, so we were supposed to have no gas for like 8 hours while they did the work
[23:58:30 CEST] <grublet> right before i got evicted my complex started getting overrun by heroin addicts and drunk vagrants
[23:58:46 CEST] <grublet> so whatever, nothing i couldnt live without
[23:59:00 CEST] <furq> then the landlord just appeared in the house after they'd been in the house for hours, and started kicking up a fuss about how they were going to put a gas meter in a cupboard which meant he'd have to pay someone certified if he wanted to change the cupboard
[23:59:01 CEST] <grublet> lived in my car for a few weeks til i found this place, roomates i pay a monthly lease
[23:59:06 CEST] <furq> and insisted that they put the meter outside
[23:59:11 CEST] <furq> so we had no gas for three or four days
[23:59:20 CEST] <furq> and also they'd already drilled the hole in the wall to run the pipe through
[23:59:30 CEST] <grublet> furq: having gas is very rare here in the us
[23:59:33 CEST] <grublet> most shit is electric
[23:59:35 CEST] <furq> so in that cupboard, there was a pipe coming in through the outer wall, then it went immediately back outside again
[23:59:42 CEST] <grublet> lol
[23:59:50 CEST] <grublet> smart ass
[00:00:00 CEST] --- Sun May  7 2017