[FFmpeg-devel] To be or not to be working with libav (was: [PATCHv3] On2 VP7 decoder)

[Vittorio Giovara]

On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 12:23 AM, Ivan Kalvachev <ikalvachev at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> For now I'll try to be constructive:
>>
>> Thanks ^^
>
> I said "for now" :E

I don't get this animosity :\

>>> 1. Do you have a commit right to git and could you find a(nother)
>>> committer who is willing to put higher priority to review and apply
>>> patches sent from FFmpeg to Libav.
>>
>> Only one review is needed, of course that depends on the complexity of
>> the patch and area of expertise of the reviewer.
>> I don't think I can guarantee higher priority to anyone as reviews are
>> carried out in free time and noone is employed in doing so.
>
> You didn't answer my question: Do you have commit access?

How would this change anything? Committers cannot send patches if they
have not been reviewed anyway.

> We are well aware how review process works. In the old FFmpeg the
> review process was insanely hard with multiple tries/passes. It was
> quite burdensome for the developers and it was one of the main reasons
> for people disliking Michael Ni. and wanting a change.
>
> After the fork FFmpeg relaxed that model drastically and it does seem
> to work much better. Just like it does for a numerous different
> projects.

For ffmpeg developers that might true, I'm not so sure for the project
consistency and for the benefit of the users.
FWIW I could name a few foss projects whose review time is much longer
than Libav's.

> Anyway, from your words I see that you are literally not taking any
> personal responsibility.

I'm not sure why I would have to. Again, I'm not gaining anything from
Libav, much less from ffmpeg, so I don't quite understand why I would
have to take a personal responsibility.
It should be a shared decision from both groups, with clear
cooperation and respect statements.

> You are not promising that you are going to review FFmpeg patches and
> that you will commit reviewed and approved patches.
>
> Are you going to at least start nagging your libav peers to review the
> patches from FFmpeg? Why don't you try to do that with the patches
> that were pointed above.
>
> Do something.

Trying to establish communication links between projects that hate
each other is already a daunting task...

>>> 2. Can you remove the ban on FFmpeg developers from the libav maillist
>>> and irc channels?
>>> Most importantly, Michael's.
>>
>> AFAIK there is no ban on anyone, besides Michael. I am not sure why
>> that's so important to you, but such decision could certainly not be
>> taken by a person alone.
>> Of course if the flow of communication, collaboration and respect
>> between the two projects increased, I believe that there could be room
>> for bringing this topic up for discussion.
>
> There is nothing to discuss. Either Libav removes all bans or there is
> no point in wasting time with empty talks.
>
> First check all emails that Michael have sent to libav* maillists and
> see for yourself that there have never been any reason to ban him.

It's hard to reply without reminding sad past topics, arousing trolls
(a few have already took part uninvited) and hijacking this
conversation.
So rather than finding the reasons that led to the ban, let's find
reasons to remove the ban.

> Then ask your peers for the reason this ban is still standing and
> request the ban to be removed. And better get their answers in
> writing. (Because if they refuse, I want to read why.)

Umh I'm not quite sure how to interpret all this.
I mean, I find it silly that you ask me (2nd person) to ask about
Michael (3rd person) to a 4th or a 5th person. Isn't it faster to ask
it yourself?

> If you want to establish a common ground, then you have to first show
> at least a sign of good faith.

Given that in this ~30 email conversion I've received more or less 4
constructive emails I'm already showing a lot of faith continuing it.
If you agree that it could be interesting to work together, I need to
have something to work on, that show some real intentions of
cooperation; having a "do this or stfu" can't really lead anywhere.
Much less the troll attempts in the other emails that got duly
ignored.
Cheers,
-- 
Vittorio