[FFmpeg-devel] [VOTE] Ban Carl Eugen Hoyos

Thilo Borgmann thilo.borgmann at mail.de
Mon Jun 13 11:12:01 CEST 2016

Am 13.06.16 um 10:23 schrieb Paul B Mahol:
> On 6/13/16, Ivan Kalvachev <ikalvachev at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 6/13/16, Paul B Mahol <onemda at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 6/13/16, Ivan Kalvachev <ikalvachev at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 6/12/16, Paul B Mahol <onemda at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> As requested in the IRC meeting I hereby request for the
>>>>> voting committee to begin voting on whatever to ban Carl
>>>>> Eugen Hoyos from mailing list, trac and IRC for 4 months,
>>>>> starting after the voting has finished.
>>>> I don't remember such thing to have been requested on the IRC meeting.
>>>> Would you kindly quote the relevant parts of the logs?
>>> It was requested to act because of Carl misbehaviour.
>>> Logs are available on net.
>> I was on the meeting and I checked the published logs
>> before sending my first mail.
>> That's why I requested that you QUOTE the relevant part.
>> Let me be blunt. Nobody have requested Carl to be banned,
>> and definitely not from ML, trac, IRC for 4 months.
>> Feel free to prove me wrong, by providing the quotes I requested.
> Nobody requested explicitly that they want to ban Carl for 4 months,
> but they all want that his behaviour is punished.


>>>> Also, I would like to know on what grounds and
>>>> on what charges you request that punishment.
>>> On grounds that he was badmouthing others.
>> That's way too vague...
>> 1. I'd like to see links and quotes of him doing the things you accuse him
>> of.
> It was all private. The last one about Derek, which was public, is just top of
> iceberg.

"all private"? Private behaviour, no matter how much we dislike it, can hardly
be a subject here. Even if it correlates to other devs and the FFmpeg
development process, it would be the task of the offended person to publish it
and ask for actions if it really exceeds a behaviour that can not be privately
ignored by the offended.

>> 2. I'd like to know why we have to ban him for 4 months exactly? Why
>> ban him from ML, IRC, Trac, but not git?
> Then we will ban him from git too.
>> How did you determined that this punishment is the one that is most
>> fitting the crimes he has done?
> By careful examination.

Just a phrase. There is no possible examination if it's "all private". And there
is no careful determination possible for a punishment because we don't have
mappings for misbehavior. Thus, what you propose is just your personal arbitrary
opinion of a suitable punishment. Aside that applying any part of the CoC to
misbehavior of the past is inappropriate IMHO.

>> I can give you a lot of repeated incidents where people have badmouthed
>> Carl.
>> Should we ban them all in a similar way? Months and years after the fact?
> They were not first to do that, they got provoked.

It is never this easy. Even if being provoked, reaction in an unsuitable manner
are not justified (just human).

>> Also, If we are going to punish somebody, there should be a due
>> process before that.
>> Witch hunts are nasty things.
>>> Many devs requested punishment.
>> Did they?
> Yes, on IRC meeting many requested something about him to be done.

Above you said "all".

>> Many people wanted breaking CoC to have consequences.
>> But I do not remember anybody requesting Carl to be banned for 4 months.
> 4 months is very realistic, symbolic amount would not be good for project.

As long as you don't explain what makes 4 months realistic, it is just your
subjective assessment.

>> Feel free to prove me wrong, with quotes.
> If you want quotes, ask Carl to give you all his private emails.

Do you even realize what you are saying? The accused person has to prove
anything? Paul, honestly, this sentence should stay in the 18th century and you
should really reflect your ambitions about all this.

Many people dislike CE's behavior and that's just fine - they are free to feel
that way. However, everyone should keep proportionality in mind and accuse
someone for _specific_ misbehavior conducted after the CoC has been adopted and
not call for generalized, inappropriate and severe punishment.


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