[MPlayer-dev-eng] Audio Codec Trivia

[Daniel B. Miller]

for the record --

Duck = On2 = Truemotion (all varieties, TM1, TM2, TM2X, TM20) = VP3 (and
VP4, and VP5...)

anyway, I'm trying to recall but it's not impossible that SquareSoft made
us break compatibility to keep people from playing the files.  If someone
could send me a representative (short) file from FF7, I will see what I
can find out about it.

As for TM2 .AX crashing, eventually I can look at that too, but I'm not
working with that source right now.  You might have more luck with a
VFW-style DLL, I'll see if one is lying around to check with.


>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 15:53:13 -0700 (MST)
> From: Mike Melanson <melanson at pcisys.net>
> To: mplayer-dev-eng at mplayer.dev.hu
> Subject: [MPlayer-dev-eng] Audio Codec Trivia
> Reply-To: mplayer-dev-eng at mplayerhq.hu
>
> Hi team,
> 	I've been talking with Dan Miller of On2 and I've come to learn
> that audio codecs 0x61 and 0x62 that I've been working to figure out were
> actually internally used by the Duck Corporation for the Sega Saturn
> movie files. They were never officially registered (not for lack of
> trying, apparently) which is why they don't show up in the official
> registries. This conceivably means that there are media files floating
> around out there that use the officially registered formats for 0x61 and
> 0x62 that will confuse MPlayer in the future. I hope that doesn't occur,
> or we'll have to add another layer of hacks to MPlayer to cope with it.
>
> --
> 	-Mike Melanson
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 00:57:38 +0200 (CEST)
> From: Arpi <arpi at thot.banki.hu>
> To: mplayer-dev-eng at mplayer.dev.hu
> Subject: Re: [MPlayer-dev-eng] Audio Codec Trivia
> Reply-To: mplayer-dev-eng at mplayerhq.hu
>
> Hi,
>
> > Hi team,
> > 	I've been talking with Dan Miller of On2 and I've come to learn
> > that audio codecs 0x61 and 0x62 that I've been working to figure out were
> > actually internally used by the Duck Corporation for the Sega Saturn
> btw, does the 'Duck Corp' really exists?
> I always thought it was just an example in the msdn sdk sample codec and
> some developer forgot to change it :)
>
> > movie files. They were never officially registered (not for lack of
> > trying, apparently) which is why they don't show up in the official
> > registries. This conceivably means that there are media files floating
> > around out there that use the officially registered formats for 0x61 and
> > 0x62 that will confuse MPlayer in the future. I hope that doesn't occur,
> > or we'll have to add another layer of hacks to MPlayer to cope with it.
> maybe based on other infos (like blockalign or samplesize) of headers
>
>
> A'rpi / Astral & ESP-team
>
> --
> mailto:arpi at thot.banki.hu
> http://esp-team.scene.hu
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 00:15:03 +0100
> From: Gabucino <gabucino at mplayer.dev.hu>
> To: mplayer-dev-eng at mplayer.dev.hu
> Subject: Re: [MPlayer-dev-eng] Audio Codec Trivia
> Reply-To: mplayer-dev-eng at mplayerhq.hu
>
>
> --uAKRQypu60I7Lcqm
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>
> It's the Question that drives us, Arpi :
> > btw, does the 'Duck Corp' really exists?
> They are also the TrueMotion 2.0 creators, afaik. Or I am dreaming again.
>
> --=20
> Gabucino
>
> --uAKRQypu60I7Lcqm
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> --uAKRQypu60I7Lcqm--
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 16:09:29 -0700 (MST)
> From: Mike Melanson <melanson at pcisys.net>
> To: mplayer-dev-eng at mplayer.dev.hu
> Subject: Re: [MPlayer-dev-eng] Audio Codec Trivia
> Reply-To: mplayer-dev-eng at mplayerhq.hu
>
> On Fri, 4 Jan 2002, Arpi wrote:
>
> > btw, does the 'Duck Corp' really exists?
> > I always thought it was just an example in the msdn sdk sample codec and
> > some developer forgot to change it :)
>
> 	If I were drinking milk right now, I guarantee I would be snorting
> it through my nose...:) Yes, Duck really did exist, and is now [part of]
> On2 technologies, who is now doing the VP3 codec. They first did Duck
> Truemotion v1, which was used in Sega Saturn games. They also did the TM20
> Truemotion v2.0 codec that MPlayer supports via Win32. They have had a few
> other codecs that have been licensed out to other video game consoles.
>
> > maybe based on other infos (like blockalign or samplesize) of headers
>
> 	I was thinking along the same lines, since it appears that these 2
> formats are always encoded with the same nBlockAlign size (512 and 2048
> bytes respectively).
>
> --
> 	-Mike Melanson
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 01:20:47 +0200 (CEST)
> From: Arpi <arpi at thot.banki.hu>
> To: mplayer-dev-eng at mplayer.dev.hu
> Subject: Re: [MPlayer-dev-eng] Brave GNU World Questions
> Reply-To: mplayer-dev-eng at mplayerhq.hu
>
> Hi,
>
> > Hi team,
> > 	I didn't see any responses to Greve's Brave GNU World Question
> > set, so I don't know if anyone had already responded privately. In case,
> > no one has answered, I've hammered out a few answers that could be
> > submitted, but I thought I would submit them here for comment. I'm worried
> > that some of my answers may be too technical. Let me know what you think.
> I usually don't like such questions, as they are very nonsense for me.
>
> > QUESTIONS:
> >
> >  * What is it?
> > MPlayer is the Movie Player for Linux. The program allows the user to
> > decode all kinds of movie formats on their Linux computers. Among the
> > supported movie formats are DVD, MPEG, AVI, ASF, MOV, Vivo, and FLI. Most
> and realmedia
>
> > of the encoded audio and video streams inside these files can be decoded
> > by MPlayer, as well.
> >
> >  * Who would use it?
> > Anyone who uses Linux and wants to watch movies.
> >
> >  * Why would they use it instead of similar projects?
> > There are a lot of movie players for Linux these days, but none have as
> > many features as MPlayer. This is due to the fact that many similar
> > projects limit themselves to a handful of file formats and decoders and
> > lack the underlying architecture to expand.
> >
> >  * (Programming) language used in this project?
> > Plain C.
>
> + lots of asm
>
> >
> >  * Special features/strengths?
> > >From an architectural standpoint, it has the flexibility to allow decoding
> > of any file format and audio/video compression formats inside and has the
> > potential to eventually become a fully open source movie player.
>
> + stability
> + speed
>
> >  * Special problems?
> > MPlayer has a lot of flexibility to decode data using Win32 and XAnim
> > binary codecs. The program also supports a variety of special output
> > devices, e.g., direct YUV output to certain video chipsets. While such
> > features add power to MPlayer, it also adds complexity in the
> > installation and distribution. (See the licensing questions for more
> > details.)
> >
> >  * Who is working on it?
> > An international syndicate of Linux hackers who just want a really good
> > movie application on their favorite operating system.
> >
> >  * History of the project?
> > >From section 1.2 of the documentation, by the original author, A'rpi:
> > "This began a year ago... I've tried lots of players under linux
> > (mtv,xmps,dvdview,livid/oms,VideoLAN, xine,xanim,avifile,xmmp) but they
> > all have some problem. Mostly with special files or with audio/video sync.
> > Most of them is unable to play both MPEG1, MPEG2 and AVI (DivX) files.
> > Many players have image quality or speed problems too. So I've decided
> > to write/modify one..."
>
> it is based on mpg12player, made by me at sept-nov, 2000. when i added avi
> support it was renamed to mplayer.
>
> >  * Plans for the close and distant future?
> > A goal for the distant future is to have a movie player that can open a
> > movie file and play it, regardless of the file format and audio/video
> > stream formats inside, without any of this nonsense about "unrecognized
> > file format" or "unrecognized data stream". Ideally, this will all be
> > accomplished entirely with open source decoders.
> >
> > In the short term, the development team proceeds stubbornly along,
> > implementing new, and fixing old, file and A/V decoders in order to
> > handle any media that users can throw at it.
> >
> >  * Do you need help? If so: of what kind?
> > If you can furnish the technical details of a file format that MPlayer is
> > currently unable to decode, or if you know the data format of an A/V codec
> > that MPlayer doesn't currently handle as an open source codec, the
> > developers would be very interested to know those details. Better yet, if
> > you would like to add such file or A/V decoders to the program yourself,
> > the development team is always receptive to patches. Also, more document
> > translations are appreciated.
> also some good lawyers and license specialists
>
> also note, that mpeg decoding and ac3 decoding and mpeg4 and msmpeg4
> decoding are all illegal or at least have legal problems, while they are
> opensource. afaik mpeg group doensn't allow using free mpeg implementations,
> without buying the standard papers from them... maybe i'm wrong.
>
> >  * Interesting/fun stories that might juice up the story?
> > Sometimes, MPlayer seems to be one of the most loved and hated open source
> true :)
>
> > projects available. Freshmeat lists in as the #2 most popular project,
> > second only to Linux itself. Yet, at the same time, there's an air of
> > controversy surrounding the project, particularly with the tiffs with
> > Red Hat regarding their premature release of gcc-2.96, and with various
> > groups that have attempted to distibute binary packages of the program.
> > Then there's the fact that many people who have not read the documentation
> > ask covered questions on the MPlayer list which frustrates the development
> > team and leads to a breakdown in patience towards new users.
> >
> >  * Website/FTP addresses?
> > The primary website has everything you need:
> > http://www.mplayerhq.hu/
> >
> >  * License?!
> > The project tries to be GPL as much as possible. There are some unresolved
> > (read: untested) issues surrounding the incorporation of the closed-source
> > Win32 and XAnim binary codecs in the program. Until we start seeing some
> > formal legal threats, the team doesn't lose a whole lot of sleep over such
> > issues.
> >
> >  * Standard documents to read in this context?
> > A'rpi, the lead maintainer of MPlayer, will tell you to RTFM. In fact,
> > it's the standard banner on messages sent to the MPlayer-users mailing
> > list. He doesn't mean to be abrasive (at least, we don't think he does),
> > but it really is valid advice. MPlayer has tons of features and
> > flexibility, supporting a wide variety of file formats, microprocessor,
> > and output devices, and it can be tricky to get it all up and running. The
> > documentation actually does cover these issues quite well and a new user
> > benefits greatly from giving the manual a thorough read.
> >
> >  * Anything you would like to see mentioned?
> >
> >  * Answer to a question I forgot?
> >
> >
> > EXTRA
> >  - Which licenses on which are currently blocking your project most?
> GPL
>
> > 	AND
> >  - How many problems do software patents create for your work?
> > As mentioned in the "License?!" question, the development team codes
> > oblivious to most licensing and patent issues. "We'll cross that bridge
> > when we come to it," is the cliche to keep in mind here. To answer the
> > questions, licensing and patent issues haven't caused any direct trouble
> > in the development of MPlayer code, but it has made the members wary of
> > creating and distributing binary distributions.
> >
> ok, you can send it
>
> A'rpi / Astral & ESP-team
>
> --
> mailto:arpi at thot.banki.hu
> http://esp-team.scene.hu
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 00:30:04 +0100
> From: Gabucino <gabucino at mplayer.dev.hu>
> To: mplayer-dev-eng at mplayer.dev.hu
> Subject: Re: [MPlayer-dev-eng] Audio Codec Trivia
> Reply-To: mplayer-dev-eng at mplayerhq.hu
>
>
> --7gGkHNMELEOhSGF6
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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>
> It's the Question that drives us, Mike Melanson :
> > Truemotion v2.0 codec that MPlayer supports via Win32. They have had a few
> No it doesn't. AFAIK it never did support. Tried now (with a Final Fantasy 7
> movie) :
>
> VIDEO:  [TM20]  320x240  24bpp  15.00 fps  3403.9 kbps (415.5 kbyte/s)
> [V] filefmt:3  fourcc:0x30324D54  size:320x240  fps:15.00  ftime:=3D0.0667
> Megpr=F3b=E1lom a(z) 5 video codec-csal=E1dot haszn=E1lni ...
> A megadott video codec-csal=E1dban nem tal=E1ltam ideval=F3 meghajt=F3t, pr=
> =F3b=E1lkozok m=E1s meghajt=F3val.
> Detected video codec: [tm20] drv:4 prio:0 (TrueMotion 2.0)
> fs seg 0x400b2000
> Loading DLL: 'tm20dec.ax'
> --(gabucino at woodstock)-(31/pts)-(Gabucino rulez!)--
> --($:~/mplayer/html)-- ls /usr/lib/win32/tm20dec.ax -l
> -rw-r--r--    1 root     root       140800 Aug 20  1998 /usr/lib/win32/tm20=
> dec.ax
>
> Strange..
>
> --=20
> Gabucino
>
> --7gGkHNMELEOhSGF6
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>
> --__--__--
>
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