[MPlayer-users] firewalls needed :)

[D J Hawkey Jr]

On Dec 19, at 03:48 PM, dan carter wrote:
> 
> [Automatic answer: RTFM (read DOCS, FAQ), also read DOCS/bugreports.html]
> D J Hawkey Jr wrote:
> > 
> > Now, as someone pointed out a while back, it may be a cultural thing,
> > what with many of the developers coming from what we Westerners call
> > Eastern Europe. If this is the case, you'd be wise to "westernize"
> > yourselves a bit, as that's where much of your userbase is.
> 
> OMG, what an arrogant attitude!!  Why don't you go and
> "eastern-europise" yourself?

You took the literal, and ignored the meaning. I meant no offense. I
only meant that here - at least in my part of the country - we tend to
treat others with respect.

MPlayer's mailing archives has the post of which I alluded to WRT
cultural differences. You're correct, I don't know much about Eastern
European cultures. I took that poster's comments as being somewhat
authoritative, as nobody refuted or argued his comments when he made
them. IIRC, he mentioned spending much time in Eastern Europe.

If my comment offended anyone, again, it was unintentional, and I
apologize.

> The developers have taken time away from coding to write, proofread and
> publish documentation to assist new users.  Then time and time again
> users ask questions that are already answered.

You know what? Taking time away from coding to write docs ain't an extra
thrown in 'cuz you're a sweet guy. It's part of the package! And yes, the
MPlayer crew has written docs. Not terribly well organized docs, but it's
there, and for the most part, complete.

You know what else? There's always gonna be the user who doesn't read
them, or "get" them. You can't get around it. You and I got mplayer up
and running with the docs; does that mean that everyone must then be at
least as savvy as you and I, else they can just go away?

> In my university days (here in "western" new zealand), if the lecturer
> had carefully explained something, and written it down in handouts, and
> then a bunch of students who have been skiping class and come up to his
> office and keep asking questions that he has already explained, then he
> will say "Read the lecture handouts, read the textbook, and then if you
> still don't understand, then you can come back and ask for help"

First, this ain't "university", this is the real world. A bad attitude
only brings on bad attitudes (that won't be forgotten easily), not bad
grades. Second, show me the last post from an MPlayer developer who came
close to phrasing his reply as nicely as you paraphrased your professor's.
They're rare.

> Teach a person to read documentation and they will be able to run any
> program they want, all by themselves.  Spoon feed them the configuration
> option for their specific requirement and they will need spoonfeeding
> all their life.

Usually the reply is an insult, followed by an answer. I haven't seen any
reply "teach" anything constructive.

Were my projects to get the amount of questions MPlayer gets, especially
with the docs, I might ask myself if they couldn't be better organised?

Writing the docs and specs is the worst part of a project. Often times
the coders are the least able to write them for "the masses", because
of their intimacy with the code. And all they want to do is code, anyway.

Just food for thought.

> > I wouldn't worry about "damage control", it may be too late for that,
> > as you already have a reputation. Were I you, I'd start thinking hard
> > and fast about things like "courtesy", "helpfulness", and yes, even
> > "modesty". Put them to good use, and you may find that the perception
> > of you and the team changes all by itself.
> 
> Microsofts developers aren't visibly courteous, helpful or modest.  The
> just develop code. 

How do you know? Do you work with them? Play cards with them? If any of
them publish OSS, I'll bet they're polite to their users.

> MS has the customer service division to do all the
> sucking up to users.  Would you like to start running the mplayer
> customer service division?

Ah, I see. "We're just a bunch of autistic coders, so code we will. We
can't stand people, let alone society. Human relationships be damned".
I seriously doubt that's the image the developers want to broadcast.
Is that the image you want to broadcast about yourself to the world?

I see where the team is looking for sponsers. I'll be surprised if they
get any serious offers with an attitude like that which Gabucino so
richly demonstrated in his reply to me.

A'rpi wants "damage control"?  No matter what forces he musters to try
to clean up the developer's and/or MPlayer's image, it won't amount to
beans if the mailing lists' responses continue to be inflammatory.

I've been maintaining software on the 'net for six years now, and just
started another project. I have and likely always will get questions
about stuff that is clearly documented. I have never flamed the user,
nor would I. The software is for them, right? Why would anyone insult
his client or customer?

And who said anything about Microsoft, anyway?

--------

If you bothered to get the jist of my post, you'd have seen that it
wasn't an attack on them, it was a suggestion that they could remedy
the public perception they brought on, in part by themselves, simply
by changing their own responses to the public.

So, YOU tell ME why YOU couldn't respond to me without persecutorial
bend? You managed to avoid the point I was making altogether.

Dave

-- 
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  \__________________   \    D. J. HAWKEY JR.   /   __________________/
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