[FFmpeg-devel] VDD 2023, FFmpeg meeting notes, (23-11-2023, 4pm, Dublin)

[Michael Niedermayer]

On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 04:10:00PM +0100, Ronald S. Bultje wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 1:40 PM Marton Balint <cus at passwd.hu> wrote:
> 
> > On Sun, 24 Sep 2023, Kyle Swanson wrote:
> > > DNS
> > > ---
> > >
> > > -   Currently the DNS of ffmpeg.org is managed by Fabrice
> > > -   Michael was asked if he has control over the ffmpeg.org DNS
> > register.
> > > -   Michael says he thinks he has some.
> > > -   Ronald would be curious to know what "some" means.
> > > -   Ronald proposes current project owners should have control over DNS
> > and
> > > trademark.
> > > -   Ronald: Fabrice is not active, DNS and trademark should be in the
> > > control of project members.
> > > -   Michael: "i think fabrice should stay in ultimate control", "he has
> > > always acted in the best interests of the people".
> > > -   Ronald took a poll in the room, most agreed current project
> > developers
> > > should have control of this.
> >
> > I think you should define what you are aiming for exactly. Having more
> > people control the domain zone, or asking Fabrice to transfer domain
> > ownership to someone else or some legal entity.
> >
> > I doubt anybody has problem with the former, but for the latter, knowing
> > history, it will certainly raise eyebrows. IMHO having Fabrice ultimate
> > control over the domain ensures that everybody plays nice.
> >
> 
> I disagree.
> 
> Fabrice has theoretical veto power over anything this community does
> because he can change the IP ffmpeg.org points to. That is not right. He is
> not a participant anymore. I understand he conceived of the project and its
> name, but he is no longer part of the developer community in this project.
> Most participants (basically everyone) agreed with this.
> 
> I don't mean to threaten and I don't mean to own rights to anything myself.
> If you don't like me asking to be part of the GA even though I don't meet
> the commit count threshold, you can express that by denying me membership
> in the "other people" vote that will be up at some point in the near
> future. I will respect this process regardless of outcome.
> 

> I believe the GA should have sole control and ownership over the domain and
> trademark. I suggested to kindly ask Fabrice to transfer ownership and/or
> legal control permanently to a non-profit controlled by and composed of
> only our GA. I believe this can be amicably worked out.  If you believe
> Fabrice should continue to have *some* (although not *sole*) say over
> FFmpeg and ffmpeg.org, then we could propose for him to be a GA member,
> too. I think that makes a lot of sense - he historically has a ton more
> work in FFmpeg than me.

I disagree
* Who is and is not a member of the GA is in flux, there can be disputes
  even on GA membership.
* You cannot have something owned by a group like that. There needs to be
  an individual like a treassurer who has the actual key.
  So you again trust one person, this is not different from what it is
  now.

Also democracies can make really bad decissions. Which iam sure you have
never seen occur ;)

And last but not least, this is attackable even unintentionally
you just need for a single moment a majority in the GA that is
bad. This is not hard to reach, a group can easily pose as enough
active developers to achieve 51% and if the domain then really is
legally controlled by the GA. yeah goodby domain
this is not a scenario possible with fabrice having theretical veto
power.
So Yes, i strongly favor fabrice keeping this veto power.

And sure i can probably word above mail more convincingly if i go
over it 3 times and send it tomorrow but i belive you understand
my point even with it just roughly worded

thx

[...]
-- 
Michael     GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB

Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.
-- Albert Einstein
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 195 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <https://ffmpeg.org/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/attachments/20230924/9d64b8c0/attachment.sig>