Subject: Re: [MPlayer-users] firewalls needed :)

[Gábor Lénárt]

On Wed, Dec 19, 2001 at 03:49:54PM -0500, Roger Fujii wrote:
> [Automatic answer: RTFM (read DOCS, FAQ), also read DOCS/bugreports.html]
> Gabucino <gabucino at mplayer.dev.hu> wrote:
> 
> > > > Hmm, this is classic, all your problems are answered in the documentati=
> > on :)
> > > I didn't realize the solution for a poorly organized docs are in the docs.
> > Exactly what is "poorly organized" ?
> 
> The entire DOC.  For a quick example, something that would make sense just from
> the current data is:

Nice, please reformat is and send us ... We need some help. We need developers.
We need girls ... ooopps .... but we don't need FLAME.
 
> Introduction
> Requirements
> Optional components
> Building
>    configure options
> Installation
> Running Mplayer
>    runtime commands
> 
> as a PEER to the above doc, you should have:
>    FAQ
>    How to submit Bugs.


Heh?!
For bug submitting see: bugreports.html!
It's even can be read at the top of each letter from our mailing list!!!!!

FAQ?
documentation.html, chapter 5 (FAQ section)

Have you ever seen the documentation or you just flame us without even reading
it? All of you want is already exist in DOCS/.

> > > That's if you already know WHAT to configure.
> > There is "Installation" section..
> 
> You show me 1 configure option in the installation section.

OK, here you are (cut&paste):

(just some examples)

    ./configure should detect it. If didn't, force with ./configure --enable-dvb<P>Re-compile mplayer with debugging code enabled:<BR>
./configure --enable-debug<BR>
<P>To enable support, compile with the <CODE>--enable-mad</CODE> configure
You can build it by specifying <CODE>--enable-gui</CODE> during ./configure .
<P>This section is about how to enable <B>watching/grabbing from V4L compatible
  <LI>first, you have to add the <CODE>--enable-tv</CODE> flag to <CODE>./configure</CODE>,
support using  ./configure --enable-lirc</P>
<P><CODE>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;./configure --enable-streaming</CODE></P>
<P><PRE>  ./configure --target=arm-linux --disable-css --with-x11libdir=/usr/arm/lib
              --with-x11incdir=/usr/arm/lib --disable-gcc-checking</PRE></P>
  <LI>screensaver+DPMS disable for libvo</LI>
  Workaround:  ./configure --disable-fastmemcpy<BR>
  SOLVED: disabled SSE code in fastmemcpy.h ;(</LI>
  Workaround: ./configure --disable-mmx, or use gcc 2.95.x<BR>
  Workaround: ./configure --disable-sse</LI>
  Workaround: ./configure --disable-sse etc. options</LI>
      (use <CODE>--enable-tv</CODE> to include V4L tuner grabbing code), and
    <LI>input A/V synchronizing (PTS-based, can be disabled with -mc 0 option)</LI>
Try ./configure --enable-dga (and RTFM)
<CODE>--disable-gcc-checking</CODE> to proceed upon detecting a GCC version of
<CODE>./configure --enable-tdfxfb</CODE></P>

Is this enough for you? You wanted to see at least ONE configure option
inside the documentation. I've just shown much more than only one. So?


> > Unfortunately nobody sends patches about what is missing, just flames.
> 
> and this is a surprise from the way you guys have been responding?

What are you talking about?

> > > > Did you read the manual?
> > > > http://www.mplayerhq.hu/DOCS/#1.4
> > > Oh, yeah.. It makes SOOOOOO much sense to read under "INTRODUCTION: What
> > > about the GUI?" for configuration information.
> > Huh ?
> 
> #1.4 is under the section marked "INTRODUCTION: What about the GUI"  Doesn't
> it make more sense to have this under BUILDING, or COMPILATION?

Heh, this is a funny one :) How can you know that mplayer has a GUI (so you
want to GUI compiled in) if you don't read the documentation? Well, have
you started to drive a car before getting your driver license, or even
before knowing what 'brake' does it mean?  No. of course. First, you
must learn about the thing you wanted to use THEN you're ready to use it.
I hope you don't want to install a nuclear weapon without reading the
FULL documentation of it :) MPlayer is more complex than a file packer or
something: you MUST read the documentation before you use it: otherwise
bad things will happen (fuck that dox, let's see this button on my
nuclear weapon ... OOOOOOPPPPS ...)


> > > > Where? Matter of taste.. Send patch.
> > > I'm not about to spend time on a project whose developers are so rude -
> > Ah-hah! :) But you would be the exception!
> 
> I guess birds of a feather, flock together....

Well, please forget the flame, please forget us, please forget yourself, and
see the world through the eye of LOGIC only ... And read again about that
nuclear weapon. Some people mails us with bug reports with mplayer's output
cut'n'pasted. The last lines was something similar: 'Your X does not support
Xv, try -vo x11 or -vo sdl instead'. Well, we just answered EXACTLY the same
that that line. So such a user like you is rude, not to be able to READ
(maybe there's some empty place at an elementary school nearby, try to find
it). And please do not say that we've started the flame. We spent whole nights
to make documentation clear, nice, well formatted HTML ... You didn't pay
a single dollar/euro/forint/etc to have mplayer, and yes, we spent hours
with documentation (just see the number of commits in documentation area
per day). This is not for us. We can use mplayer without ANY documentation.
This is for users, and you've started to flame us because of this. So, OK,
we will stop making documentation if it's so bad according you. Now, do you
feel better?


> >      * For DVD support, you'll have to compile libdvdcss and libdvdread, and
> >        in this order! See section 4.2 for more information.                =
> >      * Decide if you need GUI. If you do, see the 1.4 section before       =
> >        compiling.                                                          =
> > 
> > Do you read documentations from the bottom?
> 
> I (I presume like most people) try to read what is relavent.  The problem
> with the docs is that what's relavent scattered all over the document,
> which is unlike any other document I have seen.  I eventually found it,
> but as I said, it's not very intuitive.

Have you ever heard about HYPERTEXT (with links)? The main problem with
mplayer that it will be more and more modular. And as you know, a modular
system has got connection between almost all of the modules, so first, you
must learn at least a bit about all of modules, before realizing the whole
(go, and read some Tao or something :). This was (imho) one of the reasons
we translated the dox into hypertext (now: html) format. To allow you to
find anything easily. Just think, before type. It's easy.

BUT before you say we're just flaming: draw your concept, and send the
reorganized documentation. Don't just flame us, DO IT. It's an open source
project. We're not Microsoft to ask me to do something which we don't see
easily (we don't need any dox, it's for you!). And as being an open source
project, it's no use to flame ... Please help us, upload some great dox,
and we will discuss your work without a single personal flame. OK?

- Gabor